To wonder how the U.S can claim to be a civilised society whilst there is such a thing as Death Row?

[BupcakesandCunting]

There's probably been threads about this already...

But I just don't see how capital punishment can be an underpin of what the world regards as a civilised, modern society/country. What they did to Troy Davies yesterday can't be reversed. His supporters are still trying to prove his innocence and are confident that the gaping holes that they are finding in the case will prove it. So what will he get? A posthumous pardon? Yeah, great stuff that, America.

YANBU and I am pleased to have found a thread about this utter disgrace.
I cannot put into words how I feel about this right now. So nasty.

The state of georgia, and those who run the country need to down tools and get educated about the concept on justice. Shame on every US politician who allowed this to happen.

This has totally invigorated my interest in human rights and the importance of Amnesty. We should not need Amnesty to protect people from their govts, and it is an outrage that we do.

Rest in peace Troy Davies xxx

Yes. They have published it in their new "Rightminds" section, edited by Simon Heffer chief wanker himself

That is all from Amnesty USA onagar. They had all the statistics on their website earlier.

www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-and-race is the link.

My god PR. That article in the Daily Heil is unutterably dreadful

I know. It managed to make me even more angry than I usually am as I trawl through the drivel on that site.

I know, I should just not go and look, but I can't stop please help

Onagar, two things:

1. I really don't think that capital punishment is comparable with deaths as a result of combat.

1. You're assuming that I support the armed forces ergo I am being hypocritical in my opinion of capital punishment being a relic of an uncivilised world that needs burying ASAP.

Not exactly on topic, but related - am I right thinking there are more Black men under 30 in jail than in college in USA or just California (or not true at all)?

beachholiday thank you. Looking at that now.

BupcakesandCunting I'm not assuming you support the armed forces but you do live in a country which has armed forces so to say that the US is barbaric for passing laws making it legal to kill people is hypocritical as your own country passed laws making it ok to kill people too.

You can say "I really don't think that capital punishment is comparable with deaths as a result of combat" but then the US could say that the other way around.

If you want to say that killing people is bad and that therefore the US and UK are barbaric I am okay with that. I don't agree, but it's a perfectly valid point of view, but as a UK citizen you have Iraqi blood on your hands (and several other nationalities too)

The whole "US is evil" thing is bad enough from Al-Qaeda.

Just interestingly, with regard to it being Georgia, they say in the full report:

"A defining moment on this issue came in 1987, when the US Supreme Court rejected the appeal of Warren McCleskey, an African American man condemned to death in Georgia for the murder of a white police officer. The Justices had been presented with a detailed study showing that defendants who killed whites in Georgia were more than four times more likely to be sentenced to death than those who killed non-whites, a probability that was even higher if the defendant was black and the victim white. A majority of Justices held that "apparent disparities in sentencing are an inevitable part of our criminal justice system", and that for a defendant to be successful in an appeal, he or she would have to provide "exceptionally clear proof" that the decision-makers in his or her particular case had acted with discriminatory intent."

United States of America: Death By Discrimination - The Continuing Role Of Race In Capital Cases.

So the system is inherently racially biased but in order to get an appeal in Georgia, a defendant has to be able to prove the particular individuals in their case were deliberately racist. That sounds like an almost impossible task to me.

I just read the DM article

YADNBU. This is truly barbaric and makes me despair.

It's true that the death penalty is a State issue, and it's depressing that most people in Georgia probably supported this disgusting act. But the US as a whole still has a federal death penalty and has used it relatively recently, so it's not just the Southern states.

Disgusting article in the Mail - was he really arguing that the UK should execute 10 year olds?! Even the DM comment posters were shocked and that takes some doing.

Onagar, I thought that the US had been involved in the Iraq conflict?

Every nation has an armed force. It's a needed and necessary measure, unfortunately. I think that I, and probably most posters on here, do not applaud or condone innocent lives being lost at the hands of our military. Heck, many of us have protested against it. However, as armies go, we happen to have one of the better ones (a number of rogue soldiers aside). I do think that percentage-wise, most deaths that have happened as a result of British military intervention have been unavoidable. That doesn't make them less regrettable or significant, but you're painting our forces out to be on a par with the Libyan army or somesuch.

So no, I don't think that deaths in combat or as a result of combat can be compared with the measured response of condemning another human being, by a judge in a so-called liberal and advanced country. I would go as so far as to say that I think that the states that use capital punishment relish it a little bit. Keeping a man on death row for twenty years? That's just wrong on some many levels.

america has always and will always believe that they are the most civilised country because it is the country where dreams can come true this is what it was built on every man and woman can apparently make a better life for themselves in other words make money. this was believed when rosa parks refused to give up her seat for a white man, this was believed when thousands of native americans were being slaughtered

saying that i would prefer to live in the states than many other countries, it still has freedoms that many can only dream of especially for women

exactly what Bupcakes said, couldnt have put it better myself :) (obviously)

*Onagar, I thought that the US had been involved in the Iraq conflict?

What? of course they did. I didn't say that only we did. It's nothing to do with keeping score or "who has killed the most"

All I have said is that if a state can legalise killing for it's armies then it can legalise it for capital punishment. If you take (as some have) the position that it is barbaric to legalise killing then you must include both the UK and US in that.

I realise that you are probably going to stick to thinking that it's only barbaric when the US does it. I hadn't expected you to change your mind. I have simply pointed out that it is a hypocritical position.

People have a perfect right to be hypocritical if they want to and I have a right to be disappointed in them.

This is what my American cousins are posting on FB:

On Aug 28, 1955 a black boy name Emmett Till was kidnapped, beaten beyond recognition & shot by two white men who got acquitted of all charges. Sept 15, 1963, 4 black little girls were killed by a bomb which was linked to four white men, only 1 was tried then acquitted and was given a $100.00 fine. On August 19, 1989 a white police officer was shot and killed and a black man Troy Davis was tried, convicted, and sentence to death penalty with no physical evidence, corrupt confessions, and no weapon ever found... Yet he executed on 21 Sept. 2011!! It just goes to show how unjust and prejudice this judicial system STILL is!

What a crazy fucked up system

btw the "but you're painting our forces out to be on a par with the Libyan army or somesuch." was also quite dishonest as I had just said about it being necessary and brave.

Still don't let morals or the truth get in your way. The only thing that matters is your opinion and making sure everyone agrees with it.

"What? of course they did. I didn't say that only we did. It's nothing to do with keeping score or "who has killed the most""

No, but you did imply it with "I don't agree, but it's a perfectly valid point of view, but as a UK citizen you have Iraqi blood on your hands (and several other nationalities too)" If someone was reading that who had no knowledge of the Iraq conflict, I think I'm safe in saying it reads like you're saying that the UK are solely responsible for Iraqi loss of life during combat.

Please don't paint me out to be unreasonable because I am not prepared to change my mind on this, just because "it's only barbaric when the US does it." Well we don't do it, so I can't condemn my country for something they don't do. It's not hypocritical because it's not a like-for-like situation.

Oh and nice try at a put-down with the "disappointed" thing. :)

I also agree that the Daily Heil's article is completely disgusting. I really feel for the Wells's and the Chapman's having their daughters photos and names in that article. It is a disgrace.

This has also re-invigorated my interest in the work Amnesty do. I Troy Davis's family are getting some comfort from their involvement and the support they have stirred.

Illinois abolished the death penalty in July this year. They concluded it was impossible to set up a system which was free from error or discrimination, so they got rid of it. Here's hoping that the publicity thrown up by Troy Davis' execution leads to other states having a rethink.

Guardian has an item online at the moment showing the 300 odd inmates on Texas death row.

One man who raped and then crushed the skull of his 3 month old son.

Another who raped a 2yo girl he was babysitting and then sliced her throat.

Yet another who broke into a house, killed the sleeping parents and then proceeded to rape and kill two teenage (11 and 13 yo) daughters.

One who shot the parents and one other adult and then set a fire to house, killing three small children who were sleeping.

One woman who stabbed an 80 yo pensioner close to 100 times, then shoved a lamp 5 inches down his throat, then robbed him.

And many more horrific crimes like that as well as murders of people who werent quick enough in handing the money over during robberies.

As much as I agree that the death penalty should be abolished because there's a chance an innocent person might be killed, I don't have a moral issue at all with executing people who have done some of the above. Doesn't matter if it's a deterrent or not, tbh, death is the ultimate penalty that some people do deserve. And I certainly hope that five murders and rapists that I mentioned feel as much fear in a run up to their execution as the people they have raped, tortured and murdered. They deserve to feel that. What else couldbe a fitting punishment? A life of breathing, walking, feeling wind on your face, reading, watching television, going to the gym? Yes, prison life is not the same as life of a free person, but it's a hell of a lot more that that raped and killed 2 yo girl got.

Sorry, I said that I think that the death penalty should be abolished and then I proceeded to say how much I hope that the convicts I mentioned will have a miserable time before their deaths

I don't actually think it should be abolished, but I think the burden of proof should be much higher.

I CBA to read this thread - 4 posts was enough to show me that no one has a grasp of US politics.

There are 50 states, each functions as an independent entity and has its own laws.

See, Europe, that'd be that thing we hooked up with.... in Spain, sex is legal at 13. In the Uk its legal at 16. I just did that to show the difference in laws.

So fly that by the states - in Texas you can be fried, but there is no death penalty in Alaska.

Google isnt difficult is it? it's an educational tool.

So OP - its not "THE US" that has the death penalty at all. It's a couple of states.