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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the U.S can claim to be a civilised society whilst there is such a thing as Death Row?

204 replies

BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 12:14

There's probably been threads about this already...

But I just don't see how capital punishment can be an underpin of what the world regards as a civilised, modern society/country. What they did to Troy Davies yesterday can't be reversed. His supporters are still trying to prove his innocence and are confident that the gaping holes that they are finding in the case will prove it. So what will he get? A posthumous pardon? Yeah, great stuff that, America. Hmm

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 22/09/2011 13:41

You can't use non-consenting live bodies for medical research

I doubt the victims had consented to being brutally murdered or tortured either.

ShirelyKnottage · 22/09/2011 13:48

And again.

Squeaky - which crimes would you want to be punished by the Medical experimentation thing (uh, at the risk of invoking Godwin's law, I have to say I feel VERY uncomfortable about this)

And please also could you clarify 100 percent guilty - deffo did it - proof required?

kat2504 · 22/09/2011 13:51

No but two wrongs do not make a right.

squeakytoy · 22/09/2011 13:54

I think anything that involved inflicting excruciating pain onto an innocent person, whether it killed them or not should mean some sort of punishment, but a punishment which in turn can be something which also gives something useful back to society.

100% guilty would be just that, absolutely no doubt. CCTV, confession (although I appreciate some people lie in confession, but DNA can usually fix that these days).

kat2504 · 22/09/2011 13:55

There are other ways of being useful to society. They could do work in prison for example. using them as live guinea pigs sounds like something from the Nazi regime.

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 13:56

Yes, because DNA is always irrefutable proof that someone dun it...

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ShirelyKnottage · 22/09/2011 13:57

So how about this case then? The Troy Davis case. They actually put this bloke to death - and there was MORE than reasonable doubt that he didn't do it.

So an innocent man dies. And maybe under your regime innocent men would be experimented on.

And it's all very well thinking "for the greater good" but it certaintly ain't no fucking good when it's YOUR son who is innocent and being injected with fuck knows what when you know he didn't commit the crime he was accused of.

girlylala0807 · 22/09/2011 13:58

There have been cases of men on death row convicted with dna evidence and it turns out the were innocent so that is not 100% fool proof. Wait till I see if I can find a link.

MorallyBankrupt · 22/09/2011 13:58

Killing is wrong. Apart from when the state does it Hmm

America is not a civilised country, it is a vengeful country.

MorallyBankrupt · 22/09/2011 14:00

Oh and Squeakytoy, I find your commends more than a little disturbing.

Tee2072 · 22/09/2011 14:01

Yes, States can pass laws. Death Penalty is state by state. It is nonsense to say 'The US' is anything in this case. It should be 'To wonder how Georgia can claim to be a civilised society whilst there is such a thing as Death Row?'

girlylala0807 · 22/09/2011 14:02

Cost also a more for death penalty

www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

girlylala0807 · 22/09/2011 14:04

More interesting reading. Some stats about those found innocent

robtshepherd.tripod.com/innocent.html

SanctiMoanyArse · 22/09/2011 14:06

Three men died yesterday as a result of death sentences (that Amnesty know about)- Troy, a man in China and one in Iran. An awful lot more victims were created (even if the men were guilty their chidlren or partners or motehrs were not).

What's that stat- a poor person has never been executed in Texas, something like that? And Amnesty are shouting loud and hard atm that a rich child murderer got away whilst this man, with the shaky evidence, was killed. Can't find the Tweet to dig further but nothing would amaze me.

I was googling for some info on this and found an Amnesty pge from 2009 with a birthday message for Troy from his sister. Horrible, horrible reading today.

And what did the state departments do yesterday in response to the huge outcry? Did they even pretend to listen? Nah, they turned off thier email .

Or- as someone on Twitter put it- 'FFS America. Troy Davis, honestly. You may as well replace your appeals board with two boxes marked 'live' & 'die' and a fucking octopus.'

FrozenNorthPole · 22/09/2011 14:07

YA definitely NBU. Terribly, terribly wrong and sad.

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 14:07

Plus, if you're saying that you don't necessarily agree with the death penalty but would like to see human testing in place of it, what do you think could happen when the human guinea pigs have massive organ failure due to their bodies rejecting the stuff being tested on them? It's still a death sentence alright, just an even less humane and more painful method of getting the same result.

OP posts:
Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 14:09

"And what did the state departments do yesterday in response to the huge outcry? Did they even pretend to listen? Nah, they turned off thier email ."

Angry
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SanctiMoanyArse · 22/09/2011 14:10

Medical research?

Okaaaaay

Presumably squeaky you know the stats about mild LD and SEN amongst inmates? psychiatric conditions? Illiteracy?

I feel really rather nauseious now.

ShirelyKnottage · 22/09/2011 14:15

A lot of the stuff on twitter has been the comparison between Troy Davis and Casey Anthony WARNING! This link contains some disturbing stuff about the murder of a little girl.

I read about this just after the trial. Now, I can't imagine how this woman went free TBH - pretty much everything pointed towards the fact that she had probably murdered her daughter - HOWEVER there was reasonable doubt and so the jury had to acquit.

It's not a perfect system - no one ever said it was - but fuck me, they killed a man who probably DIDN'T do it.

So bad.

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 14:17

Shirley, I thought about the Casey Anthony case too (not enough evidence to convict so had to let her go) and the inverse comparisons with Troy Davis.

Nothing to do with him being black, I wonder? Hmm

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ShirelyKnottage · 22/09/2011 14:21

People are saying on twitter that she's got a book deal Hmm

And there'll probably be a bunch of Made For TV Movies made. bleugh.

20 years on Death Row. 20 fucking years. It's inhumane.

SanctiMoanyArse · 22/09/2011 14:21

Does look like race bias doesn;t it? Watched Mississippi burning for first time ever last night so aware my sensitivity is on max setting for this but how else do you explain it?

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 22/09/2011 14:27

People were saying days after she was acquitted that there were television companies waiting to sign deals with her. What the fuck is this world coming to?

His poor mother having to see that. Her own child being strapped down and killed and there's nothing she could do. It's appalling.

OP posts:
ThePosieParker · 22/09/2011 14:32

This issue is about the sort of country that condones murder by the state, that reduces a life to something which the state get to take. It's disgusting.

Every nation throughout this world that sanctions it is barbaric at it's core.

SanctiMoanyArse · 22/09/2011 14:36

Exactly Posie.

For me it's one of those core issues- I don't care what colour, religion, gender, sexuality youa re or if you have a disability or are fat or.... but if you support the death penalty, condone racism and otehr bigotry then-I just can't get over that.

(PS sorry I didn't get to say Hi at that meet up, all went rather quickly)