to complain to a restaurant about their handling of a flasher??????

[CocktailQueen]

Out for dinner with my sister Saturday eve. Nice restaurant. Group of fairly pissed men at bar (bar separate from restaurant but visible). One of the men takes down his trousers, flashes his bum then turns round and flashes his willy at everyone in restaurant .

There were a couple of older children in restaurant -it was about 8.30. I called our waitress over, said 'that bloke has just flashed at everyone' and she went off to speak to bar 'manager' who proceeded to hover around the man, but not actually talking to him/remonstrating with him, ineffectually trying to get him out of the door for about the next 20 minutes.

He came over to me and sis after our main course to apologise - another table was very cross and he had been over to them to placate them - I said we were shocked and blah blah, he said 'oh, it wasn't very nice for me either' - wtf??? 'It's your job to deal with him!' I told him. And 'oh, there was no point ringing the police, they wouldn't come' (???)

Couple at other table going to ring police and complain officially.

WWYD? AIBU to expect flashers to be dealt with immediately and severely, not placated and choose to leave public place in their own time????

I think there are two ways to say this...

"hello, police, yes, there is a drunk bloke in my pub, he has just mooned and turned round.. everyone could have seen his willy, there are a group of them and they are all drunk"

"hello police, there is a man in the restaurant that I am in, he has his penis out and is exposing it to anyone who might be looking, there are children in the restaurant"

two completely different scenarios..

the first is a (thankyou for the word I was looking for earlier Malificence) drunken disrespectful act of lewd offensive behaviour, but certainly not sexually perverted behaviour, and the second is an entirely different kettle of fish..

someone who act likes a prat with their mates, drops their trousers, and most likely wakes up with a banging head and a lot of regret is most definately not the same as someone who purposely sits there with their cock out purely to upset, intimidate, get a thrill out of doing it..

Whatmeworry Being that you seem so concerned about others' issues (or ishoos as you like to spell it, for maximum condescension) informing their opinions on this thread it raises the question of what yours are?

You seem to think everyone who is anyone (without ishoos natch) wants to flash their bits:

"If we were less repressed we wouldn't have a horde of women claiming this was a "sexual act" more like.... have none of you really ever flashed your bits drunkenly, or streaked or something?"

Presumably since you are so incredulous that none of the people posting against "the right to flash one's bits when drunk with impunity" have never done that themselves, is this a regular occurrence for you? I think if I started to think that was normal behaviour I'd consider cutting back on the booze for a bit and seeing whether I could keep my clothes on in public. With a bit of sobriety I might then being to reconsider whether it was me with the ishoos after all.

Also what's with the "horde of women" stuff? Why try and discredit others' views by linking them with a group phrase commonly used to describe a group of barbarians/savages? Not very subtle and btw not sure if you're aware but Pan is a bloke.

I don't think you are getting the picture, Whatme

Pan, have you honestly never, ever in your life comitted a (probably drunken) indiscretion that you were mortified with afterwards, that youswore you'd never do gaain - but that if someone had wanted to throw the bookat you, could have become far more serious than it should be and scarred your life? Never?

errr.... Nope.

but that's a besides sort of thing anyway. I reckon I'm happy to agree to disagree with you here.

but as I said it's a compulsive behaviour - it won't be the first time and it won't be the last, until he is stopped from doing it.

It is not compulsive at all. I know plenty of people who have had one off moments of drunken embarassing behaviour that has involved nakedness. The vast majority have NEVER done it again.

I'm afraid you're wrong there squeaky, but hey, I suspect there won't be any telling you.

Did you miss the bit where I said "I know". I am talking about my own personal experience, and having worked in pubs continuously since the age of 18, so thats ummmm 24 years.. I think I have a reasonable amount of experience to judge my knowledge on.

I was in a local hang-out/cafe type place years ago, and a regular there, a street kid, stripped down buck naked one time while we were there. The owner marched over and physically tossed him and his clothes out to the street and banned him for life.

is this a regular occurrence for you? I think if I started to think that was normal behaviour I'd consider cutting back on the booze for a bit and seeing whether I could keep my clothes on in public. With a bit of sobriety I might then being to reconsider whether it was me with the ishoos after all

Or, alternatively, another interpretation could be that I - and many people I know - have done silly things in their lives, been mortified afterwards, never done it again - where a bit of forgive and forget makes all the difference, where if someone had wanted to throw the book they could have become far more serious than it should be and scarred lives.

But then I am talking to perfect people who have never put a foot wrong, aren't I?

no ~I didn't miss it. But that's fine. again, agree to ..you know.

but as I said it's a compulsive behaviour - it won't be the first time and it won't be the last, until he is stopped from doing it

And that is an assertion, based on zero evidence, and I would think is total bullshit as it denies the existence of the very large number of people who make one off errors and don't do it again.

You know, if I'm "Patronising" what is this?

Squeakytoy Depends on how rough the pubs you work in are I suppose. I'm from Essex and there are definitely a few down my way where this would be 'normal' behaviour on a night out but there are also many more where it would not be. If that's your experience then there's no arguing that it's happened. Doesn't make it any more legal or funny - probably creates a vicious circle of the type of clientele the pub attracts as well but if the licenseholder is happy to deal with that and expects his/her staff to do so as well then that's their lookout. Presumably none of them were a Harvester/carvery and it was 8.30pm and the flashing was taking place while people were trying to eat their dinner with their children there?

I can still remember being about 13, staying at my cousins with my parents on holiday, and we were all in the local village pub. My parents were not drinkers, and this was quite possibly the first time I had ever been in a pub. That night the local rubgy team had been playing a NZ team. All the players were in the pub and at one point did an impromptu strip. My dad, who thought farting was one of the worst things a person could do in public was highly unimpressed, my mother for once in her life was speechless, but quite transfixed, .. me and my 15yr old female cousin were torn between gawping and screeching in teenage embarassment... but nobody phoned the police.. nobody cried about sex offenders, and nobody needed counselling...

When I was working in the pubs, if someone had been behaving that way, I would have thrown them out. All 5ft of me would have done it.. no compulsion whatsoever about that.. I was very good at it!

As someone earlier in the thread said, appealing to the most sober of the group that it was time for them to leave would have been the first action..

Steaming in, turning a rowdy situation into a violent situation is never the best option. Appealing to the better nature, and hoping for a calm removal is always the first way to try and deal with this sort of problem.

I wouldnt have called the police. I would have just told them to leave. As simple as that.

I would also have apologised to any other customers who had witnessed it.

whatmeworry What do you want people to say here? "Oh yeah there was that time I was slightly over the limit but still chose to drive and unfortunately ran a cyclist off the road but I was very sorry about it and they weren't physically hurt so I can't see why I got a driving ban/fine/points on my licence - forgive and forget - it's not like I'm ever going to do that again".

I just can't understand why being so drunk you don't know what you're doing and can't control yourself is a defence in law. It's not being harsh - it's about wanting to live in a society with boundaries and laws where it's not an excuse to be so drunk you've lost the ability to restrain yourself.

There seem to be some posters who think that the poor ikcle man got a bit drunk and therefore cannot be held responsible for exposing himself because, after all, the drink made him do it

They seem to ignore the fact that he chose to drink until he was drunk. He then chose to expose himself to a restaurant full of people. Personally, I think the police should have been called and he should have been made to face the consequences of his behaviour.

showing your cock to kids is an offense and would at the very least put you off your dinner yanbu

Squeakytoy So just because you are/were not alarmed or distressed means no one else can be either? Glad we've cleared that up then...must inform the courts that this is now the legal standard.

And kudos to you for being able to peacefully move flashers out of the pub...and I agreed with the former landlady who posted above that agression begets agression and I agree with the approach you have adopted in the past BUT if anyone in the pub had been alarmed or distressed by the flashing they would have been well within their rights to phone the police/ask you to phone the police or refuse to pay for the meal they had taken their family out for as having been ruined.

aggression

It's not being harsh - it's about wanting to live in a society with boundaries and laws where it's not an excuse to be so drunk you've lost the ability to restrain yourself

Yup, I am all for that - but I also want a society that is forgiving and flexible, not one that grabs the moral high ground with the vice like grip of the finest hypocrite, and pontificates puritanically, rich in indignation but bankrupt in compassion.

I'm not bankrupt in compassion, I just direct it towards more deserving causes. I'm not puritanical either. I go out, sometimes I get drunk but I've never felt the need to expose myself to the general public.

There seem to be some posters who think that the poor ikcle man got a bit drunk and therefore cannot be held responsible for exposing himself because, after all, the drink made him do it

I guess that would be me then, the PA was a nice touch :o

They seem to ignore the fact that he chose to drink until he was drunk. He then chose to expose himself to a restaurant full of people. Personally, I think the police should have been called and he should have been made to face the consequences of his behaviour

Not ignore at all - but Posters waaay upthread were suggesting 2 years in jail and a place on the Sex Offender's Register, and the crime was Sexual Harassment or worse, not Indecent Exposure. That was - IMO - very extreme for this if it was a first offence, and I called it.

What do you think the consequence should have been?

And why do you think the police were not called?

I know one thing. If it was a choice between children seeing a moment of stupid drunken behaviour involving the flashing of genitals, and children witnessing a full scale fight in a pub, I know which I would rather have, and I know which would upset children more.

I actually really dislike children being in pubs (yes, I know, this was a restaurant with a bar, and that IS different) but if with regards to pubs, since the banning of smoking, and the change to the laws regarding children in licenced premises, you do find more people bring their children to a pub late in the evening, after football matches and when it is very likely that there will be drunk rowdy behaviour. It isnt a place for young children, and it is irresponsible behaviour by the parents to bring children into that type of environment. Many of the adults in pubs are parents themselves and want to be able to go out, and not worry about little ears overhearing them swearing, or little eyes seeing behaviour that would normally be kept away from them. I am not saying that makes it ok to get your kit off and flash it all around, but I do think that pubs are, and should be, a place for adult to relax and not have to worry about children being present.

"What do you think the consequence should have been?"

I did answer this earlier on but I'll repost it here.

"I don't think he should have been jailed, or put on the sex offenders register, assuming this was a first offence. I do think he should have been arrested, spent a night in a cell and then cautioned the next day. It might make him, and others, think twice before doing it again."

"And why do you think the police were not called?"

I don't know why the police weren't called. I can make suggestions such as maybe the manager didn't want to answer the difficult question as to why the restaurant was serving a group of drunk men. They're not supposed to, or at least that's what I was told when I used to work behind the bar. Of course that's speculation and could be completely wrong.

Btw I can do a nice line in PA at times