Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to complain to a restaurant about their handling of a flasher??????

250 replies

CocktailQueen · 19/09/2011 11:04

Out for dinner with my sister Saturday eve. Nice restaurant. Group of fairly pissed men at bar (bar separate from restaurant but visible). One of the men takes down his trousers, flashes his bum then turns round and flashes his willy at everyone in restaurant Shock.

There were a couple of older children in restaurant -it was about 8.30. I called our waitress over, said 'that bloke has just flashed at everyone' and she went off to speak to bar 'manager' who proceeded to hover around the man, but not actually talking to him/remonstrating with him, ineffectually trying to get him out of the door for about the next 20 minutes.

He came over to me and sis after our main course to apologise - another table was very cross and he had been over to them to placate them - I said we were shocked and blah blah, he said 'oh, it wasn't very nice for me either' - wtf??? 'It's your job to deal with him!' I told him. And 'oh, there was no point ringing the police, they wouldn't come' (???)

Couple at other table going to ring police and complain officially.

WWYD? AIBU to expect flashers to be dealt with immediately and severely, not placated and choose to leave public place in their own time????

OP posts:
kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 17:22

Why does it make a difference if the person doing it was my son or daughter? They are indecently exposing themselves and need to face the consequences. Besides rather they get caught in Britain where people have such a casual attitude to drunken indecent exposure it appears than elsewear - just see how far you get doing this in other countries. Remember the guy in greece who got a flaming sambucca poured over his penis in a bar, and the guys who streaked in latvia (i think it was latvia) and then were shocked ot their core that they got arrested and put in jail for a few days and only escaped a lengthier prison sentance because the consulate begged on their behalf etc.
The only people with issues are the ones doing the flashing themselves, and those excusing it by saying it is just a prank, amusing, drunken stupidity, not a big deal.
The fact is that indecent exposure is a sexual offence, it can get a snetence of two years in prison, and it cna put the offnder on the sex offenders register. It is up to the judge to decide the punishment however, it is certainly nto up to the offender to decide for themselves whether it warrents punishment. They might think it is just a laugh, but that it in no way excuses them it just shows them up for having serious issues. If they think vaginas and penises are that funny, then they can go home call their friends around and stand there naked pointing at their genitalia.

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 17:33

Why does it make a difference if the person doing it was my son or daughter? They are indecently exposing themselves and need to face the consequences

Because that makes the more extreme posters on here face the reality of what they are demanding.

CaymansBound · 19/09/2011 17:35

What's extreme about expecting people to abide by the law and take the consequences if they don't?

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 17:41

So Caymans and Kelly, it's your kid whose been pulled up - what do you think the appropriate punishment is then? Are you 2 really up for a few years in jail and a lifetime on the SOR then?

CaymansBound · 19/09/2011 17:54

whatmeworry I've already explained how a court would take into account the circumstances and the fact that the 2 year sentence isn't mandatory, but a maximum penalty. If my DS had been caught doing this I would be explaining that "protecting" him is out of my hands, he's broken the law and these are the potential consequences. I have said that there is a lot of difference between flashing in an alleyway to this, but the fact remains he would have broken the law and I couldn't argue that had not happened unless he hadn't been flashing his penis in public (mistaken identity etc)

Attempts to appeal to poster's maternal instincts to show them their argument is wrong is not going to change the law! You would argue that this was a lighter version of flashing as mitigation (to lessen the sentence) but it doesn't change whether it happened or not!

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 18:03

Caymans, you are hiding behind waffle - what do you, personally, think this merits.

Springyknickersohnovicars · 19/09/2011 18:05

I'd say community service name in the newspaper for indecent exposure would be enough to make him keep it in his pants when around children in the future.

knittedbreast · 19/09/2011 18:07

wanking yes, shaking a soft penis around no.

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 18:07

Whatmeworry,
You think being punished for indecent exposure in front of children is extreme? WOW!

If my adult child indecently exposed themselves I would trust in a judge to decide the sentence. I would think they shoudl have a lower sentence for a first time offence that happened in these circumstances, but it is up to the judge to decide how serious a sentence an offender should receive not the offender's mummy and daddy. Certainly if the parents whine and whinge that their child should not be punished for indecent exposure and that is just abit of fun they are a bad parent.
I am not up for going to prison myself, hence I do not indecently expose myself, but anyone who does indecently expose themselves, has no right to whinge when they get punished. If wanted to expose his penis to the restuarant, he therefore should accept it comes with consequences. If he thinks it should nto be a crime then h can write to his MP and campaign for his right to expose his genitalia in restuarants when drunk.

Springyknickersohnovicars · 19/09/2011 18:11

Whatmeworry,
You think being punished for indecent exposure in front of children is extreme? WOW!

That is why I'd have called the police, if you want to bare your arse on the high street at 3 am on a Sunday morning that's one thing. (Though if seen by the police you'd be picked up for it). You don't expose yourself infront of children who had gone out for a meal.

I don't think it would be a jailing matter but probably community service and some kind of alcohol education programme.

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 18:12

whatmeworry,
what punishment do you think a grown man who commits the crime of indecent exposure in a restuarant where there are children merits?

I personally think he should have been given a fine and a suspended sentence if it was his first offense, and as children were present I would not think it unreasonable if a judge put him on the SOR for a year.

most people are not so dim that they can only see reality by imagining how they would feel if their child was being punished for a crime under the sex offence act. I fail to see why the feelings of the offenders mummy and daddy should be considered.

CaymansBound · 19/09/2011 18:36

It depends whatme - we have no idea if this bloke has a history of this kind of behaviour. Could be a fairly regular occurrence judging by his friends' reactions (who sounded very encouraging) or it could be a one off and he could have woken up mortified and vowed never to drink again. He could already be on the SOR for previous incidents of a more serious nature. Who knows.

What we do know is that if majority opinion is that this is acceptable (even if unlawful) behaviour then he won't think twice about doing it again and if next time he's out and wasted in the early evening and happens to be in the vicinity of children when he does it their parents will be expected to laugh indulgently at his juvenile humour and explain to their children that this is just what drunk men do because they can. But little boys who want to waggle their willy at other children at school will be told off and told not to do it. And if a man approaches them alone flapping his penis around they should run as fast as they can. Only in a restaurant surrounded by other diners is it classed as 'entertainment'.

Pan · 19/09/2011 18:42

The thing that we know about indecent exposurists is that they do it lots and lots of times before they get apprehended. It's a compulsive, attention-seeking behaviour.

edam · 19/09/2011 20:52

Good point, Pan.

And the thing is, this man appears to have got away it it. Which will probably mean he does it again.

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 21:55

Whatmeworry, You think being punished for indecent exposure in front of children is extreme? WOW

It was more that I thought some of the proposed rationales and punishments for this incident being proposed upthread were somewhat extreme, so I thought the best way to put a certain amount of realism back was to ask people what they would actually do if it were their kid.

edam · 19/09/2011 22:03

And everyone has said they would expect the law to take its course if it were their adult child. Rather patronising of you to assume otherwise.

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 22:18

whatmeworry,
You did not add any realism here at all. People stated quite clearly what the law was in regards to indecent exposure, and your replies were that people who had a problem with seeing man indecently expose himself in these situations were repressed, had issues, and that they should imagine their adult child was indecently exposing themselves to make them think of a suitable punishment and realise how harsh being punished for a crime was. How in any way shape or form is that realism?
Realism is accepting that if a person indecently exposes themselves, they have commited a crime and they should be arrested and dealt with by the justice system which would take the circumstances into account.

Pan · 19/09/2011 22:23

also if someone had called police to say a bloke was exposing himself in a restuarant with a mixed clientele they would be round tout suite.

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 22:40

Realism is accepting that if a person indecently exposes themselves, they have commited a crime and they should be arrested and dealt with by the justice system which would take the circumstances into account

Realism is accepting that in the majority of these cases its likely to be drunken twattery, that the bulk of people doing this will be mortified and not do it again, and that lumbering them with a criminal record and a place on the Sex Offenders Register is a ludicrous over-reaction.

But of course in your worldview these people are all "indecent exposurists" and "It's a compulsive, attention-seeking behaviour".

I do hope that one day your perfect kids or partners get caught in some immature drunken episode of twattery (like me and most of my friends were at some stage or other in their lives), then I would be fascinated to see your unyeldingingly unforgiving, patronising moral rectitude in action.

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 22:42

also if someone had called police to say a bloke was exposing himself in a restuarant with a mixed clientele they would be round tout suite

So why doyou think the restaurant did not do that then? Perhaps reality is somewhat different?

Pan · 19/09/2011 22:42

Well I hope dd doesn't do that thanks, and so far she shows very little sign of doing so.

The compulsive, attention-seeking stuff is still true, tho'.

Pan · 19/09/2011 22:43

I don't know. Panic. Embarassment. Not wanting cops in their restuarant? Sounds like the manager was in fear anyways.

Pseudonym99 · 19/09/2011 22:45

YOU were the one who witnessed it, and YOU were the one who was offended. So YOU should be the one to call the police. The trouble with today's society is no one wants to take responsibilty for anything, but is quite happy for everyone else to have the responsibility and blame them when they have the same attitude as YOU.

Whatmeworry · 19/09/2011 22:47

Well I hope dd doesn't do that thanks, and so far she shows very little sign of doing so

Of course not....

The compulsive, attention-seeking stuff is still true, tho

What - you don't think there are any people who commit drunken indiscretions and are mortified afterwards, but are all compulsive attention seekers?

I think I'm getting the picture here.....

Pan · 19/09/2011 22:48

I don't think you are getting the picture, Whatme.