to complain to a restaurant about their handling of a flasher??????

[CocktailQueen]

Out for dinner with my sister Saturday eve. Nice restaurant. Group of fairly pissed men at bar (bar separate from restaurant but visible). One of the men takes down his trousers, flashes his bum then turns round and flashes his willy at everyone in restaurant .

There were a couple of older children in restaurant -it was about 8.30. I called our waitress over, said 'that bloke has just flashed at everyone' and she went off to speak to bar 'manager' who proceeded to hover around the man, but not actually talking to him/remonstrating with him, ineffectually trying to get him out of the door for about the next 20 minutes.

He came over to me and sis after our main course to apologise - another table was very cross and he had been over to them to placate them - I said we were shocked and blah blah, he said 'oh, it wasn't very nice for me either' - wtf??? 'It's your job to deal with him!' I told him. And 'oh, there was no point ringing the police, they wouldn't come' (???)

Couple at other table going to ring police and complain officially.

WWYD? AIBU to expect flashers to be dealt with immediately and severely, not placated and choose to leave public place in their own time????

Irma - You are quite right. Often small women can get groups of drunken louts to behave themselves much more easily than sending in some big bruiser bouncer who is more likely to inflame the situation. The OP would have been complaining much more if the flashing incident occured then turned into a massive brawl between customers and staff!

Oh gosh, I must be a wrong'un because I'd have laughed.

But yes, drunken twattery is what it is. Yes, he and the rest of the group should have been asked to leave.

It's still funny though.

Lol I used to go out into a brawl and come back having been chatted up and offered phone numbers/dates

Nowadays I look like their mother so I'd probably not be much use

Exactly, Runoutofideas

Do we know btw that the manager didn't call the police? The OP didn't see them arrive but they may well have rocked up the following day to take statements, particularly as the restaurant staff managed to get the party out themselves.

There is no way the police would've arrived within 20 minutes.

As for mentions that the management didn't want to lose the party's trade - ime we'd being trying to get them out ASAP. They might be spending £££ but the loss in revenue from other customers walking out, plus the placatory freebies (bottles of wine, desserts) to those that stayed would outweigh that. Moreover, the risk to staff would absolutely take priority.

And no, the man didn't expose himself to children like some paedophile by a canal. He was an utter, utter twat who thought mooning and waving his cock to a room full of punters was hilarious. neither are Good Things, but there's a world of difference between the two.

bupcakes, and clumsy,
Your experience witht he polcie is awful.
Last year I thought someone was trying to break into my house in the night so I called the police (the local number not 999), and they were fantastic. They stayed on the line, and sent a patrol car round (whoever it was had run off by this point), and told me they would keep a patrol car in the area (I think they did this anyway)and that next time I was to dial 999, and not worry about bothering them.

"And no, the man didn't expose himself to children like some paedophile by a canal. He was an utter, utter twat who thought mooning and waving his cock to a room full of punters was hilarious. neither are Good Things, but there's a world of difference between the two."

This ^.

I think everyone would agree there is a big difference between the flasher targetting vulnerable people in isolated places and the drunk waving his willy round a restaurant, both in the level of response needed and the amount of harm done.

But you can see the difference and still think a zero-tolerance response, and police involvement, are needed for both.
The flashing in the restaurant is still an aggressive act designed to upset. And still illegal.

there might be a "world of difference" now, but that flasher by the canal might once have been a bloke who'd got a thrill out of getting his dick out in a crowded bar and not been challenged.

It may just be me but, I probably would have laughed. I wouldnt consider is to be criminal. Technically I know it is but, I wouldnt have thought it was serious enough.
If he had been walking around the restaurant with it in peoples faces I would have had a problem.
He probably felt like a prat in the morning!

Thinking this sort of behaviour is just funny and drunken idiocy is excatly why British people have got such a bad reputation for drunken loutishness abroad. It is not acceptable, it is not funny, and whether he is a drunken idiot does not mean his behaviour does not break the law. It is a crime, the police should have been called, if he had done this in another country he would certainly have found himself in the cells.

as SybilB put it upthread, "AFAIK the police do tend to take flashing seriously as it's been shown to be a gateway crime to more serious sexual assaults. "

Take it from someone who was flashed at as a lone teen - if someone had caught and challenged 'my' flasher's behaviour early on, I might not have been subjected to such a vile attack :(

He might have felt a prat or he might have thought it was hilarious, have been reliving it with his mates, 'Did you see that old woman's face?' etc.

I would not have laughed at all. Anti social behaviour is something that as a society we ignore at our peril. Laughing at it or ignoring it makes us condone it. Restaurant manager should have called the police in such circumstances.

If he had done that in another country he would have indeed spent a night in the cells along with facing a court appearance.

Thanks all :) - I agree that this was drunken stupidity, not the precursor to rape or other serious sexual assault, and he probably wouldn't have done it while sober, BUT I also believe strongly that this behaviour is COMPLETELY unacceptable in a civilised society and people should be free to go out for a meal or whatever without this happening.

The restaurant was in a quiet, posh suburb of Aberdeen. They were in the lunge bar - there was a public car next door, maybe they should have been in there (but still unacceptable wherever).

The drunken twat's friends weren't sorry/trying to get him out of the place, they were laughing and joking and cheering him on, drunken backslaps etc.

The waiter didn't offer free drinks/food to anyone in the restaurant, thus profiting from drunken mob and everyone who had their evenings disrupted.

Manager/doorman had no intention of calling police, but said if the other couple wanted to call the police then he'd help (but didn't have any info about drunken twat, such as name, so didn't think he'd be much help).

It was just the way that the waitresses shrugged their shoulders over it, really. A generation ago that would have been really shocking. Now it's something to laugh at/dismiss. Sad. What's next??

Kelly, I think that you've been watching too much of those Ibiza Uncovered type programmes

DH and I were out in a restaurant a few years ago with our friend who was over from Oslo. There was a hen party at the next table, who were very rowdy from the off. An hour in and several jugs of sangria later and the hen waps her norks out. I apologise profusely to our Norwegian mate. I said "I bet you don't have to put up with this in Oslo..." and he corrected me. Apparently, Norwegian people can and do behave just as badly as we English people. It's just less documented.

We do have a reputation, deserved, for being drunken buffoons but I also happen to know that there are certain European countries who revel in this type of thing too. It's just that we're vilified for it.

But kelly, naked men do look comical. Especially if they're not very attractive.

However, I accept that most people seem to be saying they would be offended and as such, the man should have been dealt with, ie thrown out.

I would have liked the flasher to have been apprehended, and prosecuted. I suppose it's possible that he might still or that they picked him up outside - I've had this happen to me (as a restaurant manager NOT a pissed twat!). The ideal situation is to have the police sort this stuff off of the premises.

But realistically the chances of the police arriving within half an hour of being called were minimal.

Going back to the OP, I really don't know what else the staff could have done. What would you have wanted them to do?

haven't read all the posts. I am sure it wasn't a pleasant experience but if it was just drunken nonsense i would probably just let it go. I remember being flashed at by a drunk man on a family day out when I was about ten- we were at traffic lights and the guy was messing about with his friends. I just remember my parents laughing and playing the whole thing down and saying he was obviously nutter. I haven't been permanently scarred.

OK - x-posts.

It is possible that the proprietor doesn't look kindly on his staff calling the police (hence not being averse to a customer doing so). It also might be that the manager is used to calling the police and them not arriving until the following day. In any case the proprietor needs to have this incident brought to his/her attention.

Sooooo I've changed my mind and think YANBU to complain. But don't be too hard on the manager - I very much doubt that it was his fault. The shoulder-shrigging suggests that this kind of thing goes on a lot. It would be doing the staff a kindness to flag this up to the proprietor (who are often quite far removed from the actuality of a busy Saturday night).

Wow am pretty shocked at the number of people saying 'it isn't a crime' ' no harm done' ' no big deal'.

it was an act of sexual aggression, designed to upset every woman and child ( and some blokes may be) within sight of him.

Police should have been called on 999.

So he gets the idea that when a bit pissed it's okay to wave his willy around, coz., well, no-one seems to mind coz well no-one reports him.

are we so enured to really bad public behaviour that we are de-sensitised so much?

Am I being unreasonable to think that people getting deeply upset by this are telling more about their own ishoos than a drunk guy being a prat?

Btw, if it was some women flashing her tits and bum would everyone be so upset? (I've seen that in a restaurant....)

Whatme- it's totally different for a woman doing something like that - there is much less of a latent threat than if a man were to do it. Men and women are not just reversible. As it were.

I don't believe it was designed to upset, I really don't. A group of men I know very well streaked at each other's weddings. 'Captain Naked', the game was called. It happened late (ish) into the evening after a lot to drink. Maybe it's different as they were private events rather than public places. I'm sure some people thought it was idiotic and offensive but I don't believe anyone ever complained about it.

When I (fairly frequently) mooned as a student, my intention was certainly never to sexually intimidate or upset people. It was just drunken stupidity. Nudity is funny.

I used to work in a bar too, and he would have been unceremoniously thrown out. Completely unnacceptable behaviour whether drunk or not. I can't believe they seriously didn't have one member of staff in who had the guts to get him out of the pub.

I'm not sure about calling the police, but to just allow him to stay in the pub without any repercussions was just ridiculous. People have been thrown out of coffee shops for breastfeeding babies for crying out loud, but whipping a willy out is totally ok?

and I think people who minimise this could be revealing their own ishoos connected with tolerating really poor behaviour from others.