to complain to a restaurant about their handling of a flasher??????

[CocktailQueen]

Out for dinner with my sister Saturday eve. Nice restaurant. Group of fairly pissed men at bar (bar separate from restaurant but visible). One of the men takes down his trousers, flashes his bum then turns round and flashes his willy at everyone in restaurant .

There were a couple of older children in restaurant -it was about 8.30. I called our waitress over, said 'that bloke has just flashed at everyone' and she went off to speak to bar 'manager' who proceeded to hover around the man, but not actually talking to him/remonstrating with him, ineffectually trying to get him out of the door for about the next 20 minutes.

He came over to me and sis after our main course to apologise - another table was very cross and he had been over to them to placate them - I said we were shocked and blah blah, he said 'oh, it wasn't very nice for me either' - wtf??? 'It's your job to deal with him!' I told him. And 'oh, there was no point ringing the police, they wouldn't come' (???)

Couple at other table going to ring police and complain officially.

WWYD? AIBU to expect flashers to be dealt with immediately and severely, not placated and choose to leave public place in their own time????

I imagine the police could have dealt with it under the same legislation that they use against men who piss in the street - some sort of public order offence (probably an on-the-spot fine) at very least.

Wilson I agree with you about the licensee aspect - they would not have wanted police involvement for that reason. So the restaurant/bar was keen to make as much profit from selling booze to this group as well as take profit for the meals they were serving. Which is why I would have refused to pay in OP's situation. Let them call the police then when you say your meal has been ruined and won't be paying.

No-one is justifying it. We've all said he's a twat. We're merely discussing whether it would have been worth the restaurant's while in calling the police. Whether you, or I, think that the police should take this kind of thing seriously isn't what we're questioning here...

FWIW, I really don't think that the police would concern themselves too much with tracing the card details of someone who (very stupidly) got their arse and balls out in a restaurant. Fair enough, they'd probably deal with him if they had been called out at the time but I really can't imagine them tracing card details.l

Most sex crimes are not committed for purely sexual pleasure (£20 to a prostitute would take care of that), it is about having power over the victim, and humiliating them, not about a person being so overcome with desire they rape a person. And flashing is a step to that sort of behaviour, especially when it is a group of drunk people egging each other on. They flash in the restuarant, the next thing is flashing to women on the streets, then shouting lewd comments, then groping etc. People just excuse it left right and centre, boys will be boys, it just went too far, they were drunk, they have not done it before, she should not have walked alone, she should not have had anything to drink, she led them on etc.

jenai, there were children in the restuarant.

If i were the copper called to that restaurant to that incident I would arrest the person who called me for wasting my time. In no way does he sound like he was a threat to anyone just a pissed up dickhead. It happens on occasion - get over it. Its a totally different experience being wanked at on a quiet lane and I have had both experiences.

He should have been thrown out.

Agree that the staff can't do it, so should have called police to get him out.

jenai,
The restuarant did not call the police so they did not do everything they could have, and no if an area is nice you can go to a bar without fear of people indecently exposing themselves. If people are constantly exposing themselves and it is accepted then it is not a nice area. If you cannot take children into a restuarant that has a bar or serves alcohol through fear men will expose their penis to them then it is not a nice area.

jetsetlil Are you a copper?

Ha Ha! No I work in a bar. I agree with the other poster - this happens occasionlly in bars i've have been in not necessarily where i work. Have seen women do similar things too - would the police be called then?

If the management of the establishment were too concerned about their balance sheet and license to call the police, I'd have called them myself then and there.

Tell me, how many of you have recently tried to summon the police?

I admit I haven't recently, but I know of an elderly man who recently returned to his home to find it had been broken into. He was unsure as to whether there were intruders still in the house, and being alone and elderly, he was unhappy about finding out. So he went into the street, and used his mobile to call 999. He explained his circumstances to the police. They said they would attend "when they could", and suggested he got a neighbour to help !! The police turned up 6 hours later.

I don't think the police would come to a restaurant for this kind of thing on a busy saturday night. If the guy was rampaging around the restaurant with a breadknife maybe, but not for dropping his trousers in a bar.

Oh and children weren't "involved" . OK there were 2 older children who happened to be in the room at the time. Did the offender specifically go up to them to shakje his tackle in front of their faces - no ?

TBH if it had happened when we were out with DS (12) , he might have been in danger of choking to death from laughing too much in his dinner - and I suspect my 81 year-old mother may have had a similar reaction..

I have had reason to summon the police twice in the last five years. Once when some shitehawk tried to break into my house via my kitchen door, when I was stood washing-up at the sink, nine months pregnant. They came five days later. The next time, when a drunk driver smashed into DH's stationary car and legged it from the scene (outside our house), leaving his own written off car in the middle of the street, thus blocking it and causing fucking bedlam. Yeah, we got spoken to like we'd gone out on a six-hour bender then written off someone else's car.

when you run a restaurant and have a drinks license one of the things you have to do is to uphold the licensing objectives, one of which is to be on the lookout for antisocial behaviour and how to tackle it and the other is child protection.

The police would have come if called, but it was up to the manager to make a call on what action to take. He clearly thought getting rid was the best way, rather than disrupting everyone's evening with a police drama.

Until you have been in that situation and had to manage it, I suggest people don't assume they know what the managers ultimate plan of action was.

I would have called the police, fwiw.

Phew Jetsetlil! Was concerned that yours was the attitude of real copper the way you said that and that a real copper was actually so misinformed as to the law that they really thought they could arrest the informer for wasting police time!

You work in a bar where women routinely expose their genitals? Are you sure it's not a lapdancing/strip bar with the appropriate licence? If women are exposing their genitals then yes it's the same offence. Yuck. Don't care if it's a penis or a vagina - don't want to see either while I'm eating thanks.

IME there is a huge amount of randomness in whether the police turn up and how long it takes them, depending on how busy they are, how far away they've got people etc so it doesn't mean you shouldn't ever call them just because they didn't show up when you were burgled etc.
On a busy Saturday night in a city centre they'll presumably have a lot of officers deployed and it's just a matter of luck whether they've got people a street away who are just walking around keeping an eye and can be there in 2 mins, or all possible officers are trying to break up a big fight that has just kicked off on the other side of town which is obviously higher priority than this.

It's in a different league to a lone man down the canal jumping out of the bushes and flashing schoolgirls though isn't it?

It is just drunken twattery.

I ran a pub/restaurant for many years. If it had happened in my pub I would have refused any further service, asked the flashers group to pay the bill and leave immediately. If they had refused to leave, I would have then called the police. I would have placated the other customers with free drinks/desserts. I bet in the flashers group there was at least one who was less pissed and more sensible. I would have appealed to him to help me get rid of his friends quickly and without making a fuss. Being too heavy handed can cause an aggressive reaction which everyone would want to avoid.

Haven't had to call the police for a while but in the last 7 years I have probably made about eight 999 calls to the police to have people removed for threatening behaviour or refusing to leave after being asked nicely and where there is a potential threat to me or my staff.

The first time had a 36 hour response time. I complained and response times went down to just a few minutes. I have always found the police to be very helpful and sensible in those situations. Only one person was cautioned (he cornered me in an office and threatened me) the rest were spoken to and removed which seemed sensible and appropriate in the circumstances.

I worked in banks btw. Had a few prosecuted for fraud and got more hassle from police over arresting those people (when known fraud MO and part of a larger ring FFS) than dealing with public order stuff.

*Bupcakes8 that's awful

We had an attempted break in a few months ago, I called the police and they were there in about 5 minutes, plus the radio controller stayed on the line the whole time to make sure I was okay.

I fail to see how this sort of behaviour is acceptable in any context. I wouldn't dismiss it as a prank or high jinx

I think he should have called the police but probably didn't as you're not supposed to serve people when they're drunk, or at least that's what I was told when I used to work behind the bar, a long time ago.

Runoutofideas How long would you have given them to leave? More or less than 20 minutes? I think OP is most disgruntled about the fact the manager didn't seem to think it was a big deal and seemed to be faffing but can appreciate the an aggressive approach to such a group of twats could have enflamed the situation - so we now have to be careful about telling a man waving his willy around it's not appropriate...I think there is a lot more the manager could have done to 'manage' the situation.

I think Runoutofideas's approach is sensible. In my first management job I was assistant manager and the manager was a great big bloke. It was my job to deal with the twats because I was small, blonde and female and therefore less likely to get a smack than him.

I probably wouldn't have given them as long as 20 minutes but that kind of depends on the behaviour of the group. If they were apologetically trying to remove pissed friend then I may have given them 20 minutes. If they were laughing at me for being angry with them, and not making any effort to leave then I'd have been on the phone in less than 5 mins to the police. They would have been under no illusions about my displeasure with their behaviour but I wouldn't have resorted to screaming/yelling at them or physically trying to remove them, so from afar it may look as though I wasn't doing much. Hard to tell really from this whether the manager could have done more. Either way, the fact that the OP is still unhappy means, I think, that he didn't apologise enough or do enough to make it better for the other diners on the night.