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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to complain to a restaurant about their handling of a flasher??????

250 replies

CocktailQueen · 19/09/2011 11:04

Out for dinner with my sister Saturday eve. Nice restaurant. Group of fairly pissed men at bar (bar separate from restaurant but visible). One of the men takes down his trousers, flashes his bum then turns round and flashes his willy at everyone in restaurant Shock.

There were a couple of older children in restaurant -it was about 8.30. I called our waitress over, said 'that bloke has just flashed at everyone' and she went off to speak to bar 'manager' who proceeded to hover around the man, but not actually talking to him/remonstrating with him, ineffectually trying to get him out of the door for about the next 20 minutes.

He came over to me and sis after our main course to apologise - another table was very cross and he had been over to them to placate them - I said we were shocked and blah blah, he said 'oh, it wasn't very nice for me either' - wtf??? 'It's your job to deal with him!' I told him. And 'oh, there was no point ringing the police, they wouldn't come' (???)

Couple at other table going to ring police and complain officially.

WWYD? AIBU to expect flashers to be dealt with immediately and severely, not placated and choose to leave public place in their own time????

OP posts:
Mitmoo · 19/09/2011 12:04

I draw the line at exposing yourself in front of children.

That's why I'd have called the police. If I was in a Rugby Club bar and the lads went into sing song mode (I have laughed at the antics), but in a restaurant with kids in it. I'd have called the police and let them decide what was appropriate.

Mitmoo · 19/09/2011 12:06

Cup he could potentially be charged with both drunk and disorderly and indecent exposure.

IrmaMuthafucker · 19/09/2011 12:06

I suspect the police would try to persuade the guy to leave quietly and have a word with his mates about getting him home. From my experience of dealing with anti-social behaviour in a public place they will try to resolve matters in as low key a way as possible but will make a judgement depending on how he reacts. If he's rude/lashes out then they'll take him in.

Fwiw if I were the manager I'd have asked the whole party to leave and called police if they refused to go.

TheBride · 19/09/2011 12:06

Agree with squeaky toy. I have been flashed at by some weirdo on a footpath obviously with the intent to scare me, and that was, IMO, a sexual offense. I did report it as the idiot did it right next to his van and I had a camera phone so I got his plates.

That is very different to someone stripping off and running across Old Trafford while a bit pissed up/ flashing in a restaurant. The restaurant should have thrown him out and offered free drinks.

TheBride · 19/09/2011 12:08

sorry- pressed submit too soon........

........so I agree he is a puerile cock (no pun intended) but I dont agree he had a sexual motive or that it's a sex crime

bemybebe · 19/09/2011 12:08

Irma - is it me?

altinkum · 19/09/2011 12:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IrmaMuthafucker · 19/09/2011 12:10

Is what you bemybebe?

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 12:11

I really do not understand how people can jusify a grown man exposing himself to children just because he was drunk, and it probably did not give him a sexual thrill, and say it is not a real crime, the OP is being prissy (WTF), and this is just an idiot who needs to handle his drink better. The police do take indecent exposure very seriously, there is a reason it is classed as a sex offence and has serious consequences. If i was the OP I would report it to the police, making sure to tell them there were children present. The group probably paid with a debit or credit card so should be easy to find.
Can i also just say that those who say it was just a drunken idiot etc give the UK a bad name. In some parts of Europe they have bars with signs saying "no drunk British", and british people get a reputation for getting too drunk, and having bad attitudes to women and it is because of behaviour like this. The idea that if someone is drunk it is not a big deal if they flash someone, make lewd comments in bars, grope someone etc. It also means that when British people go abroad and act like this they get hell of a shock when they find themselves arressted and thrown in the cells as they assume this behaviour is acceptable everywhere and will be tolerated. There was a woman (in greece I think) who became a bit of a national hero after she poured a flaming sambuca on a british guy's penis in a bar, as people there were fed up of this behaviour from drunk british men! The fact is most British people do not act like this, but because some do and their behaviour is excused and not taken seriously everyone gets tarred with the same brush.

squeakytoy · 19/09/2011 12:11

What do you really think will happen if your child happens to see a bloke, in the middle of a crowded bar, egged on by his mates, drop his trousers?

It is not in any way comparable to someone surreptitiously exposing themselves in a way to shock, or to get a sexual kick.

I completely agree that it is juvenile behaviour, and the bloke should be thrown out of the pub, but it is not something that I would be calling the police about, or demanding he sign the Sex offenders register for..

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 19/09/2011 12:14

ime the police would do fuck all in these circumstances.

Drunken troublemakers have to be seriously threatening violence for them to turn up at a bar or restaurant on a Saturday night.

wrt throwing the guy out - staff have to act very, very carefully as otherwise it can turn nasty. I've thrown out many people in my time, with the help of burly chefs. But it takes time (20 minutes is nothing) and it doesn't help when you're also trying to placate angry diners (and the chefs are meant to be cooking your dinner!).

I think you're being unfair on the manager tbh.

And it's a shame, but that's what bars are like on Saturday nights. I would probably avoid taking my 10yo ds into a bar-restaurant on a Saturday night for that very reason - although when we have done so (family party in a city centre location), witnessing pissed up tossers was a risk we had to run.

ArmageddonOuttahere · 19/09/2011 12:15

I'm pretty surprised by the "just a bit of high spirits" brigade.

This man was deliberately exposing his penis to create a reaction from people by upsetting or disgusting them. I find that quite sinister.

If he wasn't picked up on this behaviour either through an unambiguous chucking out by the management or by the police being called, it is tacitly affirming to the guy that his action was acceptable. If he got a kick out of it and 'got away with it', what might he do next to get his jollies?

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 12:16

squekytoy, it is a sexual offense under the sexual offences 2003 act. He can go on the sex offenders registar and get a prison sentance. Streaking is also a crime, and streakers have been arrested, put in cells and charged with indecent exposure before.

SybilBeddows · 19/09/2011 12:16

What if he makes a habit of it SqueakyToy? And how do you know he's not getting a sexual kick out of it?
Surely the point is we don't know, and if everyone ignores it we will never know and if it is something dodgy it will never be dealt with.

altinkum · 19/09/2011 12:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squeakytoy · 19/09/2011 12:18

This man was deliberately exposing his penis to create a reaction from people by upsetting or disgusting them. I find that quite sinister

I would think you have led a fairly sheltered life if you think that. Groups of drunk men are notorious for raucous behaviour, (and so are plenty of women too.. it isnt just limited to me, but they seem to be the main protagonists)..

booyhoo · 19/09/2011 12:18

have only read a fewcomments on pageone but i am with OP. i absoloutely think this is a crime. if he had done it to a child on it's own or a woman in the street it woud be a crime, the fact that he did it to more than 1 person does not lessen the impact on any of the people present-including the children.

this was a crime and should not b tolerated or justified by his drunken state,the fct he waswithfriends or th factt there was more than 1 victim!!

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 19/09/2011 12:18

really do not understand how people can jusify a grown man exposing himself to children

I don't imagine that he was exposing himslef to children. He was exposing himself to a bar/restaurant full of punters.

He was a tit and I would have liked the police to have arrested him, however the OP asks AIBU to complain to the restaurant - I don't think she is. They did what they could in the cirsumstances. Had the police arrived it would have taken well over 20 muinutes for them to arrive.

kelly2000 · 19/09/2011 12:20

jenai,
Where are you drinking. Bars are not like that nor should they be. If I was in a bar and a guy exposed himself to me, I would call the police pronto and press charges. It is shameful that people think that behaviour is just part of going out in the UK. And the police do take this behaviour seriously.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 19/09/2011 12:20

Typo City there. Sorry Blush

CaymansBound · 19/09/2011 12:20

Section : 66 Sexual Offences Act 2003
A person commits an offence if he/she intentionally exposes his/her genitals and he/she intends that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress.

Can be committed by a man or woman. The offence is complete without anyone actually seeing the genitals, or being caused Alarm or Distress.

If the police had been called it would have been an arrestable offence.

Kelly2000 very much agree with your view about how much we tolerate this shit in the UK to the point where we have an awful reputation abroad. Maybe if we didn't just shrug it off here (a) sexually motivated flashers would not get a chance to move onto rape etc. (b) our drunks would learn to be better behaved.

It is about context, I agree, and the law is always going to be a blunt instrument but the context here was a restaurant in which some familiies were eating and the drunks were at the accompanying bar and it was early in the evening to be so out of control.

WilsonFrickett · 19/09/2011 12:22

The manager should have called the police IMO. It was drunk and disorderly behaviour. I'm suspecting one of the reasons he didn't is because they shouldn't have continued to serve alcohol to that group - given it was so early in the night and in a family-type bar/restaurant. It's the licensee's responsiblity to ensure alcohol is consumed responsibly and they can't continue to serve people who are visibly drunk.

ArmageddonOuttahere · 19/09/2011 12:22
Grin
altinkum · 19/09/2011 12:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 19/09/2011 12:23

Cripes I really did mangle that last post!

I do think the OP is being U. The restaurant did what they could - by all acounts they handled it well, as nothing kicked off.

kelly I live in a nice, well-to-do city. A small one with a lot of rugby going on. I have also worked for many years in restaurants here and elsewhere. This shit happens on a pretty regular basis.