...to be cross with this doctor's presence during the birth?

[chickenchops]

Really not sure if i am or not.

I was induced and three hours later given an epidural by the on call anaesthetist. I didn't really like him. He was cross I was skipping the peth injection, got very cross with me when i moved slightly when he stuck me in the back with a needle (without warning), was just overall very abrupt and rude. Oh well i thought... I will never have to see him again.

My labour stalled and I got exhausted. Cue OB coming with ventouse. Just after she arrived, so did the anaesthetist.

He did not speak to me. He did not check any equipment. He did ask midwife if she had to use any boosters. (yes she said. one. although she did not disclose that i was finding the epidural less and less effective and had put me back on gas and air after 2 hours it was sited). the OB got her kit out and got between my legs. Anaesthetist then took position just to her right to watch the birth.

No one explained why he was there. he did not tell me. he made a few inappropriate comments i could have done without and then just well, watched.

Several things went wrong with my birth/aftercare. I ended up writing a letter to the hospital pointing out some aspects of my care that really were wrong and also mentioned that I was quite unhappy that this guy just showed up and hung out between my legs. they were quite surprised I was unhappy about this as "but chicken chops, he's a doctor". I wound up in a meeting with them this week and again expressed how distasteful i found this. they were again gobsmacked and said no one had ever complained before as most women simply don't mind.

really?

I'm not british and grew up in a strict evangelical christian household. I am wondering if i am being precious about my dignity to due how i was raised? Or, would you have found this offensive too?

for the record, the story has changed several times as to why he was there but no one disagrees that while he was there he did nothing.

so... aibu?

To be clear I used the phrase "out the window" as a previous poster had said "modesty goes out the window when you give birth".

I personally wouldn't worry who was present when I gave birth. Some people do. It is entirely subjective but no woman should be made to feel bad because she didn't want extras watching her give birth.

Yabu.

Bruffin I had a very similar birth, eclampsia, kidney failure the works.

OP if you didn't have the anaethasist there and you had an emergency I could see your complaint. All kinds can go wrong, in my case the epidural worked lovely for the labour but when it came time for an emegency c-section, they topped up the pain relief through the epidural but it hit a blind spot and I could feel them cutting me. It wasn't as horrific as it sounds, well it was probably, I had to given a general anasthetic, haemorraged and ended up in intensive care.

These people are there for a reason, if you didn't get complications and didn't need him then seriously, I'd just let it go. The time to complain was at the time nothing good can come from dwelling on it.

Unfortunately your dignity is left at the door in a maternity ward. The world as his wife were involved in my birth but we both got here and survived. If that meant half the specialists the hospital had to offer, had a butchers at my kipper it was a price worth paying.

I think the main problem here is not actually the anaesthetist presence but the hospital and the doctor's refusal to explain why it was necessary to have him there and the insistence that 'But he is a doctor' is enough of a reason. (The other unprofessional behaviour is also an issue)

It can be very difficult for clinical staff to forget that the patient is an individual human being and that she has the right to dignity and a full explanation as to the reasons for interventions and the presence of people during those procedures. And, I am sorry but 'He is a doctor' is NOT an explanation.

Why are woman so accepting that their dignity will be lost during labour/birth.

We wouldn't accept it in any other speciality of health/medicine.

It is certainly an insight into why maternity care is so poor - women don't complain. And if they do complain, they are told they're lucky to have a live baby and that should be enough.

I agree that often a lot of things can go wrong and a lot of staff are needed, it is unfair to expect women to complain immediately after birth. It is something that needs reflecting on and processing and if there is something you are not happy with you are entitled to ask why and query procedure. Shutting up tends to lead to dwelling, shear the opportunity to debrief and receive a proper explanation (or apology if necessary) helps in being able to 'let go'

I don't think the OP here has been given a satisfactory explanation by the hospital (and she has every right to ask and expect one).

YABU.

It wasn't a random member of the public, it was an anaethetist who was there to deal with any emergencies eg Caesarian. Imagine how you would feel if he hadn't been there, it had gone tits up and you had to wait for him to arrive.

I had an assisted delivery and had an anaesthetist there - I didn't think anything of it. He was head and bottom end, probably assessing how things were going.

Maybe next time you could put it in your birth plan that you want minimum people etc.

Am sorry you had a bad experience and hope motherhood is going well.

You had an epidural, therefore the anaesthetist doctor who put it in is responsible for this.
He can't just go away and leave it. If you'd had problems with this epidural you would have been grateful.
My anaesthetist came in during my actual birth and was one of the the most pro active people in the room...
Your doctor sounds like a miserable so and so. A complaint about his attitude is fine but the business that he just wanted a good look?
I doubt it very much :o

TheQueen we can't give birth without having our bits looked at, there's no choice. Specialists are extremely expensive, he wouldn't be there if he wasn't needed. The time to ask or complain was at the time.

There must have been one midwife who could have explained why he was there, even if he couldn't.

If she has some special religious requirement not to have men at the business end then that should have been told to them before the birth. Even then I would worry about the cost and staffing implications for other mothers.

What if someone who was working on an emergency situation was called away to replace the male anathatist (eek sp). She doesn't know what the staffing levels were like, what the gender splits of the staff were or what the anathatist (eek) was monitoring.

I didn't like all of the people who looked after me, it's not a personality contest though. One midwife I could have happily smacked in the chops when she said "Shes not coping well with the pain" after they'd put a catheter in me but it was the wrong size and had that constant cystitus type pain relentlessly.

Another left some heavy duty pain releif in my babys cot.

If the OP had a serious complaint I'd say different but IMO it's petty.

To dwell on it would just waste everyone's time and energy. I don't think it is unsympathetic to say draw a line, move on, get over it. I think it's good advice to be honest.

epidural is supposed to wear off in final stages of labour so you can push

my complaint would be rude, dismissive and unprofessional and not conducive to a positive birth experience; OB sufficient for birth experience anaesthetist should not stand with full view of birth; lack of information during birth process adding stress; personal insults over weight and 'big girl' and apology required but will not pursue any further action

I have both angles here. My DS's very premature birth and a laparotomy 4 days earlier, meant that my labour room was nearly full. There were lots of students, 2 consultant obs (my primary consultant was supposed to be going on holiday, but came back in to do the delivery - he was amazing) midwives, students, paediatricians, the anaesthetist...you name it really. One of my only clear memories of the birth was one of the consultants getting a bit cross and saying 'Do there really need to be quite so many people in here - can some of you please leave!'

It didn't bother me in the slightest and I found it reassuring at a traumatic time to think that all of these people were there to keep me and DS alive.

However... I do believe strongly that too often women are on this mad conveyor belt and I can understand how easy it is for professionals who see it several times a day, every day can forget what a momentous occasion a birth is for the mother and how some people do care about their dignity or do have strong feelings about being treated with modesty. As someone said above, a birth can be a lot easier if the mother is comfortable and peaceful and being aware of a lot of people in a room (or just one who makes you feel uncomfortable) can only get in the way of that.

I agree that, if there is medical necessity, then of course modesty should not be the primary consideration, but I would expect at the very least for a professional to say 'hello ms x, I am...and I am here to...' just out of pure manners. She is conscious after all and it might even be reassuring for her to know who is there to take care of things.

Rita there are some complaints worth making and others not.

If it was worth making a complaint over I'd tell her to go for it, so no I don't think it's why maternity units aren't as efficient as we'd like. (Though I found mine brilliant).

Probably more to do with understaffing and increasing birth rates which is one reason I wouldn't encourage complaints that can really make no difference to anyone. If the anaesthetist was grumpy perhaps he was knackered doing over and above to keep the wards running and women safe. If he was at the business end perhaps he was just doing his job.

"If he was at the business end perhaps he was just doing his job."

Perhaps, but perhaps not. No one has explained his presence. Maybe he just wanted to watch the birth? Maybe he has forgotten that the OP was actually a person rather than just an interesting case?

perhaps not? what else would an anaesthetist be doing at the business end?

Spectating?

I wouldn't have complained either, mitmoo, but she's asking whether she IBU to be cross at his presence and I would say she is NBU to be cross that he was there without an explanation. It wouldn't have taken much (about a 10 second explanation at the right time) and she wouldn't have needed to feel like this at all.

It's all very well everybody explaining why the anaesthetist should be there: why hasn't the hospital?

It is 'worth complaining about' because she's upset about it - that's not for anyone else to judge.

Telling the OP not to 'dwell' on it is basically telloing her to shut up and repress her feelings. By complaining etc she is giving herself the best chance of properly getting over it.

Suggesting that the time to make a complaint is either during labour or immediately after is absurd.

Anaethetists are not routinely required to be present during a labour where an epidural has been administered. The hospital cannot adequately explain why he was there which does suggest he was simply present out of (medical) curiosity. Nothing wrong with that in principle but have the courtesy to ask if the woman giving birth is OK with that.

And complaints do make a difference. It used to be the case that woman were not asked about the presence of med students etc. Now it is the norm to ask if you mind rather than being subjected to a constant wafting in and out of white coats. This is a good thing.

I

Although an anaethetist may gain valuable information from observing the actual birth (blood loss) his/her job wouldn't actually be there. It would be in placing IV lines/resuscitating the patient, all of which occur above the hips.

I don't think it is unreasonable for the OP to request and explanation as to why he was in fact, 'at the business end'. If there was a medical reason for it, it would be a simple case to explain. Perhaps a little harder if there wasn't.

OP, I'm not reading all the thread because the 'suck it up, Buttercup' attitude maddens me. There is no reason why patients shouldn't be treated with humanity and respect at all times by hospital staff, and just because someone else is happy for unintroduced medics to be at their birth doesn't mean you (or I) have to be. Feeling assaulted by the forcible removal and denial of one's dignity isn't preciousness or self-centredness.
Can you take comfort from the fact that your actions in complaining will result in better care for future women and babies, as the hospital will reconsider it's policies and the dr is likely to introduce himself and explain his presence, a well as consider more carefully patients' consent and humanity, in future?
I am British and not evangelical Christian and I would feel as you do: I think you've been treated in a degrading and misogynist way and are unsurprisingly angry and upset.

YANBU

I had an epidural, complications and ended up with an ECS, but the anaethetist didn't show up again, having given the injection, until I was taken into theatre. I had various midwifes, student midwives and at one point 3 doctors discussing whether to artificially break my waters in the room with DH and I, but at no point did any of them hang around the business end (all convos were conducted by my head and only sporadic checking was carried out around my fanjo) and I think if they had (if they weren't actually doing anything) it would have made me very uncomfortable.

I'm quite saddened that the OP has had such a harsh response from some posters - just because you wouldn't be/weren't upset by people staring up your fanjo for no apparent reason when you're already frightened/in pain doesn't mean that it's a good or necessary thing.

And yes, dignity does go out the window in the birth process but why make it any worse than it already is?

OP, you have definite grounds for complaint; the records were not kept properly, he made inappropriate and unprofessional comments, they have not given you a legitimate reason why he was there (which I find appalling, though not surprising) and also the sheer fact that you were made to feel uncomfortable and stressed at such an important time are all valid cause for complaint.

You don't mention a partner/husband or birth partner in your OP - were you 'alone'? Just wondering if there was another witness to this behaviour.

ThRealMBJ

She says she has been given several explanations in the original post, it just seems that she's not happy with any of them.

I don't know what can be achieved by asking for more explanations until she finds one that is satisfactory. I fail to see what will change the hospital aren't taking her seriously and even the OP isn't sure ISIBU.

I seriously think it is time to let it go. She's complained what else can be achieved?

If they've given several different explanations, how is she to know which one (if any) is true?

YANBU to want an explanation for his presence (it sounds like you have actually been given several explanations but aren't satisfied with them) but you are being a bit unreasonable to imply that he was simply hanging around to gawp at your fanjo.