to think SAHMs deserve respect and consideration from their families?

[Cushionface]

Do other SAHMs feel taken for granted? I have a very comfortable life and know I am very lucky, but feel that even though I'm on the go nearly all the time, husband and children show very little appreciation for what I do; I don't believe they have any idea how much I do for them, and whilst that's my job, it would be nice to feel valued, which I really don't. DH has a very demanding job and is abroad a lot (always exhausted when home), but makes comments about all the free time I have, and, though an excellent (if over-indulgent father), sometimes criticises my parenting skills, even though he is hardly ever here! I have a demanding elderly mother, two children, 15 and 13, fundamentally good but prone to teenage tantrums and quite spoilt (our fault I accept), two lovely but demanding dogs, and all the usual demands of modern life. I don't need/want/expect sympathy but would love to know how others cope with this feeling. How do you know if you're doing too much/too little? How do you know when it's reasonable to expect more from other family members? How do you get satisfaction from doing a never-ending job, that's neither valued nor respected?

jilly i think you will find we all gravitate to research and literature to support a life view,pov or observation

so naturally given all my dc at nursery ft from 6mth. i will not gravitate to OJ and biddulph and their poor methodologies. i will of course cite other research that supports assertion nursery and working isnt harmful

I happen to agree donthateme and all my children have been in nursery at some point.

But you can't just pick and choose which bits of research you agree with on the basis of your own life choices.

And SM, I haven;t worked for almost 14 years but get offered work on a pretty regular basis because I have contacts and keep my hand in an all sorts of different ways.

To be honest, I base my choices on what I think will work, and by looking at my children and how they interact with other children. I'm not a competetive mum by any means, but 'research' is actually the LAST place I'll look to bolster my own viewpoint, I look at experience.

My childrens' best friends have parents that are full time workers, and they have been in childcare since the end of their mum's mat leave. There are a few minor differences, some good, some not so, but ultimately all the children are at roughly the same stage academically, have equally as good social skills and muddle along with life as children very well.

The common ground I believe, are the parents' contribution... and both me and my friend give equal quality of care even if we don't give the same time.

Frankly I don't care what 'research' says on the emotional well being of my children, I can see with my own eyes, that though our choices are vastly different, our children are equally prepared for the next step and happy in the one they're in.

of course i dont live by research i do what works for us as a family
we enact out our value belief system in how we raise our children

On that I completely agree, I am the same. The thing is... our 'belief systems' may not actually be that far apart. Do you want your son/daughter to think the only way is 9-5 corporate hamster wheel? Do you want your son/daughter to think women have no worth other than to don a pinny and bake cakes? No and no for me, I assume it would be no and no for you too.

Yet we choose different paths. I suggest that in x amount of years we have this discussion again but refer to our children and their view on the world.

So far, my kids (hate that, OUR kids) understand exactly what's what. If I suddenly start a company that looks like it could exceed DH's income in profit, and he stayed at home to look after the kids, I wouldn't think he was emasculated, neither would he. We based our decision on a combination of financial logic and 'want'. What can I say but it works!

If your decisions work for you scottishmummy then that's valid and 'right' too. We're lucky to have choice, we both have probably sacrificed SOMETHING, but if it aint broke.......

aldi and jilly have brought up excellent points..... agree with most (all?) of what you say... I think I'd like to add that our definition of 'work', which seems to mean a) training to a certain level (degree or vocational) b) employment by someone else in a professional/corporate/vocational context within c) a defined ladder of advancement is a very recent definition (historically).

If you read any books on the world of work, you'll see that the big shift in thinking occurred during the Industrial Age - whereas previously 'work' was seen within the familial context of people working within a household to support that household (think traditional trades - also many professional people, e.g. doctor whose family would dispense medicines from within the home). With the advent of the I.A, men started to leave the house in droves, abandoning their own domestic skills (leather tanning was 'the man's job' for example) and women needed to step up to the plate in a domestic sense, to respond to men's absence - hence the advent of the Domestic Angel (among the middle classes) in the Victorian Age. Feminism (both first wave and second wave) served to glamourize the world of work, and demonize the labour done within the home (any idiot can do it....) - contextually in a very necessary way, to redeem women's lost economic power (why this had to be at the expense of domestic labour... I don't know).

In this post-modern Age I think we see another huge shift occuring - we are moving away (a long way away....) from the work-for-a-gold-watch idea of professionalism and towards an entrepreneurial age, merging individual's IQ and professional accomplishments with their EQ and business gumption! Apart from the fact that we are now expected to change careers, swim in the worlds of SAHM-dom/FTWAHM-dom/PT-work, increasing numbers of us will be self-employed. Increasing numbers of us will live full and capable lives well into our 80s and 90s, also....

I'm 33. I have 2 DC, an Oxford scholarship, tri-lingual, PGDL and five years' professional experience. I fully anticipate that I will swim in waters other than those of my own domestic making.... but those will, most probably, be oceans of my own causing

I think I might write a book, actually.....

sahm is a bit of a post war prosperous affectation and not borne out by the lives most women lived,and do live. children worked and mums worked.compulsory schooling and various factory acts were passed to limit ages of children who worked in factories etc

this alleged halcyon days of housewife up to elbows in flour watching the kids is a bit of a misnomer.

I think you should!! pmsl

The most interesting person I ever met was a woman of a 'certain' age (in her words, she was certain she was her age but not prepared to divulge what that was) who'd seeminly done it all.... she'd been a hippy, she'd climbed a corporate ladder, she'd been a SAHM, and a FTWM, she'd been self employed, was educated beyond anything I could possibly imagine, she'd been a dependant of a man earning big bucks AND been the bread winner after he'd had a heart attack and died... I met her when she served me in a very uninspiring cafe in Devon. She did as she liked, reserved the right to change her mind, did what she needed to do (emotionally and financially) and I completely admired her. I also met her teenage daughters who were wise beyond their years and loved life.

I'm not academically well read, I haven't reached the pinnacle of a corporate career (I bailed out at level one) and I have no issue with anyone who's happy doing what they're doing if they're doing it because it makes them feel alive. I PITY those with no choice and firmly believe more should be done to make real choices more easy to attain.

I like interesting people. Life is interesting. The day that I have to do and be what someone else says I 'should' is the day I may as well lay down and say 'walk all over my dreams'.

May as well send the kids to the mill then ay scottishmummy because that's how it always was?

aldi my book will be called: 'An Atheist on Fire for God' (atheist - that's me - writing about what good things religion has done.... given that I live in America, I reckon it's very much of the Zeitgeist.... ) I like your attitude to life, btw....

Maybe I should get SM to write the forward, I'm sure she's got lots of opinions on religion, too..

SM Actually, historically speaking, mankind's work has consisted of subsistence-level foraging, and (much, much later on.... ) farming, for, ooh, about 90% plus of our existence on this planet (though I'm sure you had a previous existence as God's right-hand woman.... or maybe Lillith?) My point was actually that while (yes, you are right...) SAHM is a historical anachronism, so is WORK as it is traditionally meant! READ my actual post, please!

point is sahm is not historically what most women and children have done,work for centuries has been women and children activity.legislation such as various factory and education acts decreased children in workplace

this notion of sahm as norm is a misnomer. it is a post war phenomenon

so this allusion to mum and kids at home as norm is a social construct

Gosh, a title containing two of my least favourite and most emotive subjects - God and the absolute lack of 'it'.

How exciting!

SM my point is that your notion of WORK is a social construct..... WORK has always meant whatever was necessary to maintain the household (or nomadic group of wanderers, or tribe, or farmstead, or whatever....) It includes everything from domestic tasks to bringing in money to raising children to caring for elderly parents. It's not just going down t' mill or careening off to your N.Y. law office on skyscraper heels (dreaming....)

aldi I'll put you down for a pre-print copy

my notion of work is pretty universally shared
labour in exchange for money
undertaken usually external to home
demands and tasks are to an externally imposed standard. failure to met or adhere to external standards can lead to sanction or loss of revenue.imposition of rules and regulations

none of which housewife is

housewife is an individually agreed act that benefits that immediate family unit

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, SM

I don't think, in the history of MN, that anyone has ever changed anyone's else's mind on this topic, have they?

But it's been interesting discussing this with you!

SM, you really seem to have a lot of time on your hands. Interesting you use the name 'mummy'. Perhaps you should change it to self-opinionated eejit.

given its you with no respect ,spoilt (by own admission) children
what would you call yourself?

Not a self-opinionated eejit.

I agree with ChocolateIsAFoodGroup. 'Work' as we know it is as much a social construction and 'work' used to mean everything done to enable a household to function including looking after the home/children.

i have no need to start thread about my spoiled children.or lack of familial respect.or no job.

evidently you do

I agree that it is probably going to affect your career chances if you are a SAHP for years on end. But, for me, it is worth the risk. To me, living on one wage, is safer than relying on two. I also have studied and volunteered in addition to being full time mum. Many parents at the school have got school jobs this way. And as we have discussed before on simealr threads, me being AH enables DH to work odd hours.

I have been through some real horrors in life and learned what is most important (for me..everyone is diferent). I am happy SAH and feel it is right for us, very right. But that doesn't mean I think all women should do it.

cushion how are you? What do you think of how the thread has gone? Kinda meandered, hasn't it?

Hello everyone, Chocolate - the link was funny, thanks. Cushion, you're back! I think you've got quite a lot of support, if you ignore the SAHM vs WOHM debate, which I think is a bit like debating whether fruit or vegetables are better anyway.

Hey, maybe if your DH is complaining you have a lot of free time, Cushion - it might be because you're more ORGANISED! Or more efficient at doing your jobs quickly.