to think SAHMs deserve respect and consideration from their families?

[Cushionface]

Do other SAHMs feel taken for granted? I have a very comfortable life and know I am very lucky, but feel that even though I'm on the go nearly all the time, husband and children show very little appreciation for what I do; I don't believe they have any idea how much I do for them, and whilst that's my job, it would be nice to feel valued, which I really don't. DH has a very demanding job and is abroad a lot (always exhausted when home), but makes comments about all the free time I have, and, though an excellent (if over-indulgent father), sometimes criticises my parenting skills, even though he is hardly ever here! I have a demanding elderly mother, two children, 15 and 13, fundamentally good but prone to teenage tantrums and quite spoilt (our fault I accept), two lovely but demanding dogs, and all the usual demands of modern life. I don't need/want/expect sympathy but would love to know how others cope with this feeling. How do you know if you're doing too much/too little? How do you know when it's reasonable to expect more from other family members? How do you get satisfaction from doing a never-ending job, that's neither valued nor respected?

Oh, SM not that hoary old chestnut again.... I'd forgotten that there was a 'perfect' correlation between worth and economic activity - which is why nurses are paid £200K a year, right?! [hmmm]

And if SAHMs weren't doing what they were doing, you would have to PAY someone else to do it! It may not be a 'job', but it's the one of the few non-jobs I know of (like carer for an elderly parent) where if you didn't do it, you would have to PAY someone else to...

Plus, who said we don't get paid? I get paid in sexual favours every Friday night by my grateful DH

So totally worth it....

Wotcha, Kipper - how are you?

SAHMS are worth £35k a year

aldi what you say is true....

Coco link to stats?

in a 2 wage couple if job lost 1 person left to struggle on 1 wage
in 1 wage couple if job lost no person left to struggle.no wage

i find it bizzzare one can actively contemplate a life of faffing about,lil hobbies and a waged person supports that. hell where is the fulfillment in thinking ok kids at school.9-3 me time.partner does tin in to maintain family lifestyle other does ...well sweet fa?

millionaire housewife?where loughton.yes maybe there

chocolateisafoodgroup I need to renegotiate my terms of employment!!!

Not all jobs are 'paid', its still work, like caring for my FIL who has alzheimers is a JOB, I don't do it as a hobby, its not a domestic chore like hoovering.

Paid employment - well I have none. But I sure as hell have not been watching Jeremy Kyle for 7 years. Yes, you CAN be a lazy arse as a SAHM, but if you take it seriously, its work. With long hours and no annual leave or sick pay. Its hugely rewarding, if its what you want to do.

oh not the if housewife was paid for fluff and fold it would be worth £xamount.

fatal flaw there is someone else watching my kids, being my cleaner is income generating and profitable. the money distributes around. others outsourcing is gainful employment for someone else

sahm is not income generating,not a job doesn't legitimately require payment

SM I'm starting to feel really sorry for you. Your partner must be awful for you to feel so strongly about a subject that really doesn't apply to you.

If both are happy what is the problem? Its not what I'd choose particularly, but why so venomous? If one person is earning £900k a year, and the other actually enjoys faffing about, what the effing jeffing arse does it matter to you?

I know faffers who do some amazing fundraising for charities that they couldn't do if they got a 'job' they don't need, who have lifestyles I envy, who support their partners careers by doing everything else. I know some who do fuck all but go on cruises. I know one who is an enternal student, the most qualified person I've ever met, but she does nothing with it, so what?? She happens to be a great person, her husband is more than happy and she's very useful on the pub quiz team.

A 'waged person' could actually fully support their partner's choices, has that crossed your mind??

I don't get why you're so angry when it costs you fuck all.

have you got with the programme pop.discursive forum discuss anything my wee mn heart desires

hell i was vociferious in support of victoria beckham and her choice of vertiginous heels

i dont eat grapes in supermarkert,but hell might have an opinion on it

you see in an open discussion board one can opine about most topics without direct experience of

you should try it

SM do you know what the most income-generating job is? Army officer (My DB is one, so not for one second dissing the Army) - but if you add up the salary, effects of war (compensation, clean up, territory-rebuilding, hospital fees, etc, etc) it produces the most income. I'm just pointing out the logical outcome of your income-producing theorizing.....

Glad this has deteriorated into a bun fight! I brought plenty of buns, and lots of tea to go around....

In all seriousness, though, SM appears on every thread about SAHMS - she hates us with a deep passion - I have to ask, why? What has it got to do with you? I don't feel any (not even the smallest amount) of animosity towards WOHM - in fact, I have a deep and abiding respect for the amount of work they cram into the day, both inside and outside the home.

I think at the end of the day, I just respect (and like!) myself, though - don't really feel the need to get my kicks from doing others down.....

i may add in same way those who dont use nursery opine about day care orphanages/baby farm and bang their biddulph tambourine.whilst never having used day care

no direct experience personal of subject doesn't stop anyone opining on mn.far from it

overpersonalisation i dont hate anyone on mn.
robust discussions?hell yes that the point

I have no issue with full-time working mums, part-time working mums, SAHM's, or evern shocker SAHM's who's kid go to nursery.

I do have a natural respect for the fact that people are all different, and a different combination of choices work for different people. My best mate is a full time working mum, high up career woman... in all the years we've been friends we've managed to respect AND have empathy for each other's bad days even if they sound like an actual 'dream' to the other.

I like a hearty discussion, but one with respect, I enjoy chewing the fat. I do have to say though SM you read like you like a fight rather than discourse.

Aldi agree again... SM it might be the way you write.... a t..i...n....y bit of humour may go a long way....

www.legalandgeneral.com/life-cover/life-assurance/

The stats chocolate

(Though 32 k not 35k!)

Thanks, coco! I'll have a look later.

Sorry link thingy didn't work!

I do think it's odd that a mother with teens wouldn't work, but it's not really done in my bit of the world, so maybe that's why.

I think if my DH was happy in his work (and he LOVES his work) and earning lots, then even if I didn't have a job per sé I'd certainly be busy... I'd have to be, I couldn't do nothing. At present I don't actually have much time to dedicate to 'not for profit' work (voluntary charity work, full time PTA frenzy etc) however when my kids are teens, I will either be working and getting paid, or working and not getting paid.

There are a lot of things you can do that are unpaid, but they are not 'unworthy'.

Do I think my work is worth £35k? No I don't. I wouldn't pay a CM to do my 'normal working day' £35k (DH and I are very much a tag team when he's not at work) but not every valuable job can have a price tag or wage put on it.

Yes, I didn't mean only paid work.

This has gone slightly off piste. Surely the issue is that the OP has been doing the same thing (SAHM) for 15 years and is now feeling unappreciated and not respected. She also seems to feel that she ought to feel lucky to be in her position which is why she questions her 'right' to feel upset about this. Thats a risky trap to fall into- when you feel that you are fortunate to be in a certain position and therefore you damn well ought to be enjoying it when plainly things aren't all rosy.

As far as the OPs dh is concerned, I can understand where he's coming from when he asks what she spends all her time doing. Look at it from his point of view: when she was first a SAHM she had one, then two, small children who Would have needed direct caring all day. Then they would have started school, which would have meant more free time for OP but still taking and fetching from school and some hands on care after school. But now these kids are teenagers! I imagine they get themselves to and from school, and spend their time out of school with friends, studying or occupying themselves. They are also well capable of taking on small jobs around the house. However you try to dress it up, the OPs role as a SAHM has changed beyond recognition over the years. That's what her DH is questioning. If his work had changed massively over the last 15 years, and from being full on all day to actually having about 6 hours of his day to himself, surely it would be worthy of discussion? It seems the problem is that at no point have they done that totally normal renegotiation as life goes along. What might be right for one phase of life isn't necessarily right a decade or more later.

The fact that the teenagers are prone to tantrums and generally unappreciative is also a sign that maybe things should change. Yes, I know all teens can be surly sometimes, but it sounds like this is a general lack of respect and unwillingness to help. Its going to be far harder to get them to change if they see their mum as being at home all day- to them it will seem that doing everything at home is simply what their mum has always done, and what she will always do- they don't see her as defined by anything else. One of the big advantages of working (especially when the children are older) is that as well as all the positive role model aspects, they see that you aren't physically there any more than they are to do the running round. In our house, the rule is whoever gets home first unloads the dishwasher, stacks the breakfast things and brings the washing in. If I were home all day, my kid would just see it as my job, and id no doubt feel I ought to do it to justify my role.

The bottom line is- you can't change what others do .you can change what you do, and in turn that changes others' perceptions of you. Respect and appreciation are earned. Even if the OP starts trying to insist on a job schedule for her teens, their response is likely to be the same as her DHs : 'you're at home all day, its your job!' Whereas if they see her moving forward with her own life and doing something that is separate to the home and family, they are more likely to see her in a fresh light and start to value her more. Its no good people just saying 'everyone should be valued regardless' - fact is, the OP is not feeling valued and needs to deal with this

A SAHM would be worth nothing like £35000 to my family.

Assuming we didn't have grandparents to help out by picking dd up from school twice a week, a SAHM would be worth approximately £2000 to us at most, probably more like £1500. This would cover after school care on the couple of days per week when DH or I can't pick up, as well as activity clubs during the holidays. We fit all the other jobs in around work anyway, so these would just continue to get done. Oh, except there would probably be a lot less ferrying dd around from one activity to the next, because we wouldn't be able to afford them all without my salary.

Obviously, families with more children would have higher childcare costs, but I struggle to understand how anyone would value the work of SAHM to school aged children at £35000, or anything like it!

Magicmummy- that whole idea of what a SAHP is 'worth' is a bit of a red herring. It was obviously thought up to try to equate what you would pay to employ a child minder, cleaner, cook, etc

Its based on a false premise though because being a SAHP is not a job. A job is something which someone pays you to do because it is of value to them. People choose to have children purely because they want to. Of course, some of those kids will grow up to become surgeons, rocket scientists etc and pay back in shed loads through taxes etc - but that's by the by. Its not the reason people have kids- there are no guarantees how anyones child' will turn out.

While it's an iteresting paper exercise to try to say what a Sahp is 'worth'' , in reality its meaningless.

i agree with the posters saying you cannot equate the cost of paying someone for the SAHP jobs with the value of that job.

if i pay the beautician to wax my legs, i pay her £40 (hairy legs!) but i have not earnt £40 if i do it myself, i have just waxed my own legs.

On reflection, I should probably factor in my lost earnings. Given that my take-home pay is approximately £36000 after tax, NI and pension deductions, I suppose me being a SAHM would have a net value to my family of around -£34000 in monetary terms. Though we would presumably qualify for tax credits etc, so perhaps the loss would be less.

Obviously, you can't measure everything in money. I actually hate my job and would probably benefit enormously in terms of my mental health from staying at home. DH would also benefit from having to do less around the house. It would impact very little on dd at all, as I drop her at school every day anyway, and DH and I already pick her up three days in the week.

I think the OP needs to find something for herself, outside of the family, whether paid or not. You can't rely on others for your self esteem and kids often take their parents for granted. What will she do when they fly the nest? My own mother became horribly depressed when my sister and I left home, she felt like her life no longer had a clear purpose. There is tremendous value in a life of service to others, but ultimately, you have to think about yourself as well - if you don't, nobody else will!