to think SAHMs deserve respect and consideration from their families?

[Cushionface]

Do other SAHMs feel taken for granted? I have a very comfortable life and know I am very lucky, but feel that even though I'm on the go nearly all the time, husband and children show very little appreciation for what I do; I don't believe they have any idea how much I do for them, and whilst that's my job, it would be nice to feel valued, which I really don't. DH has a very demanding job and is abroad a lot (always exhausted when home), but makes comments about all the free time I have, and, though an excellent (if over-indulgent father), sometimes criticises my parenting skills, even though he is hardly ever here! I have a demanding elderly mother, two children, 15 and 13, fundamentally good but prone to teenage tantrums and quite spoilt (our fault I accept), two lovely but demanding dogs, and all the usual demands of modern life. I don't need/want/expect sympathy but would love to know how others cope with this feeling. How do you know if you're doing too much/too little? How do you know when it's reasonable to expect more from other family members? How do you get satisfaction from doing a never-ending job, that's neither valued nor respected?

Donthateme, I quite agree - I think the "SAHM is worth" arguments are nonsense, because they assume that WOH parents do nothing in the home whatsoever. And because, as you have pointed out, they ignore the crucial fact that looking after your own kids because you love them and chose to have them is very different from looking after someone else's kids because you need to earn a living.

I was merely responding to the suggestions put forward earlier that a SAHM is somehow "worth" £35000. Actually, I don't think you can put a value on it, and I don't think you can measure everything in monetary terms.

SAHMs make all sorts of contributions to their families, and shouldn't have to justify themselves by coming up with random figures to indicate what they are "worth". If it works for you and your family, that should be enough. If it doesnt, then it's time to go out and get a job!

I expect respect from my family because I'm me. It is utterly irrelevant what job I do and that goes for DH too.

Of course SAHP shouldn't be paid but of course they are hugely valuable.

It's a bit of a non argument.

At the end of the day, if you are happy then I can't understand why you would spit bile at other women ( SM I'm talking to you!)?
We know you like to work ( but, IIRC your DH is a teacher so, with all due respect it's not going to be easy to live on that salary alone anyway so you have less choice than someone whose husband earns £200K) but lots of us choose to SAH.
I have respect for the choices other women make, would be nice if everyone could be teh same.

That was unnecessary Jilly - way below the belt. I have no idea who SM is, but sniping at her husband's earnings is very low. The fact that he is a teacher, doing a massively difficult and important job, should be valued and not sneered at.

Cushionface i do know where you are coming from.I am in a similar situation with 4 dc's from 5 and up.I also have a dh who works overseas for several weeks at a time.It is extremely stressful to manage several kids by yourself for long periods of time -but you do get used to it [whether young or teenagers].If your dh then comes home and criticises you when you expect some help and 'relief' from being the sole carer -it is incredible upsetting and demoralising.I'm sure by virtue of doing your job your dh is able to concentrate exclusively on his job and you will be contributing to his success.Men when they are solely looking after themselves 'forget' about the stresses and strains of family life and think they are the ones doing all the work.
I think this thread in discussing the 'value' of SAHMs versus WMs have totally missed the point.Yes Cushionface you are not being unreasonable in wanting to be valued.

You're joking right?

You don't think all SM's bile at fluff and folders is below the belt, then? hmm?

And who's sneering at teachers?

If she's gonna dish it out on every bloody thread about work where she continually snipes and sneers at SAHM, then she ought to be big enough to take it.

If she wants to work, bloody great but she needs to fuck off and then fuck off some more with the continued bitching at those who don't.

That's to Maisie by the way.

jilly,im not married.my partner isnt a teacher.youre a dire sleuth
do try harder

I know you're not married and I am a very good sleuth indeed. I am sure you have said your DH is a teacher ( or HoD or in education).

I will unearth and return.

In the meantime, you really should look at why you seem to loathe women who make different choices form you so very much and are so disparaging about them and their lives. It's a really unpleasant trait and does your cause and argument a disservice.
I support all women in their choices, to me it's what feminism is about.

oh dig away,knock yourself out to prove spurious point
you may find i mentioned a budgie 2003....now no budgie.uh-huh
maybe im a name changing troll
maybe you have unearthed my dark past

hmmmm I would agree usually OP, however, at ds1's school today they had a glass artist in as they are having a stained glass window designed and the students are helping design it/come up with ideas etc.

One of the questions my sons class were asked was "who do you respect most?"

And my ds1 said "my mum"

SM, I agree with so many of your posts on here but it irks me that someone whose POV I generally respect is so disparaging about women who have made different choices from her.

We are all different and we all work within our own frameworks. What works for you will not work for others and it's so essential to accept that with understanding. There are often very good reasons why women SAH just as there are very good reasons why women work and they may not be instantly visible to you.

It's as oppressive to assume all women should work as it is to assume they should all SAH.

Just live and let live a bit, eh?

im not claiming to be globally correct,far from it.but you know what i do think sahm is risky and precarious strategy and makes re-entry to job market when desired harder.yes, i do have a particular pov and particular choices that has worked for me,and yes was always part of the plan.equally others will have planned sahm too

the sahm- working mum is hotlry contended on mn.and it does polarise

and yes conversely other people do post and bang their biddulph tambourine and research from shitsville uni to prove nurseries are detrimental and cause apathy and gingivitis in babies and toddlers

do i loathe a particular group?no of course not
do i have a vociferous opinion.yes

and no husband so dont saddle me with that incumberance

Jesus SM, do you want sauce with that chip?

On a serious note, SOME SAHM's are in a precarious position. SOME are most certainly not.

Many SAHM would be in a far stronger financial position in the event of a divorce than a working mum on minimum wage. All situations are different.
In the same way that SOME unmarried people are in a precarious position and some are not.

It's impossible to generalise, so I don't.

It's a good strategy.

I still dint think we are talking about SAHM when the kids are 15 lol

It's housewife or unemployed IMO

I do want to be a SAHM for a few years if we a blessed enough to have 2, but SM is right, it can make it difficult to get back into work sometimes etc. There are 2 sides to every thing and I think SM just says her side without apology which I quite like

a prolonged period not working,does make getting a job harder.fact
no recent experience
need current, recent references
a competitive job market
and creates a financial dependency upon 1 wage earner
and children dont see mum work,or a role model as employed and active. it re-enacts a v traditional daddy work, mummy at home domesticity

You presuppose SAHM want to return to work.
Many don't. Many have lots of other roles that are not paid or 9-5.

As for an active role model, don;t be daft. Do your kids see you at work? No, they see you leave and see you come home. EXACTLY the same as my kids do me. My work is not paid, and that is the difference. And housework is wayyyy down on my list, by the way. And no, I don't spend my days shopping or lunching either.

It's actually less risky being dependant on a high earner and not working than it is living with a low one and working for minimum wage yourself, do the math.

Most SAHM of high earners were also big earners themselves so can usually re enter the job market pretty easily, in my experience.

I completely accept I'm in a precarious position as regards returning to the job market.

Buying a home puts you in a precarious position.

Driving a car puts you in a precarious position.

Its not ALL about security and steady income ad infinitum, sometimes its a bout choosing a quality of live (that's not always financial but is sometimes) that suits you and those closest to you.

If that means both parents work full time, fair enough. If that means one works and one works and one SAH, fair a-bloody-nuff.

I'll say again, my mother SAH while we were small and me and my siblings have a strong work ethic, because both my mum AND dad worked bloody hard, and still do, and have a great life they've earned. My dad wouldn't have been able to have persued his career in the way he did had my mum made different choices. Its swings and roundabouts.

I have no issue with day care. I speak for many many SAHM's who don't read the Daily Mail.

Nothing in my life is permanent either. My roles throughout my life have been diverse and different, and earned and WANTED. I never plan on retiring, how dull I would find it. I have no desire to own a home today, maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow.

Yes, it is hard to get back on the career ladder, but I'm not sure I WANT a corporate ladder to climb, I am pretty sure that within five years I can generate a pretty good income without the need to hand a CV to anyone.

You're thinking with your blinkers on scottishmummy and are no different to the lame, shortsighted people who assume childcare is shit and working mums are evil, you're no different to the misogynist who insists a woman's place is in the kitchen, you're just the other extreme.

You have some valid points, but mostly, you're a one trick pony with blinkers on who can't see the worth and the value in other people's choices, therefore I bow out of this thread completely, because the people you're arguing against are in the minority, your counter attack on those idiots who disrespect working mums makes you as bad as them and frankly, I can't be arsed anymore..... I'm happy, my DH is happy, my kids are happy. We have a good life.

Long post apologies.

You seem to think, scottishmummy, that modern day SAHMs who have years of career and all sorts of life experiences behind them, suddenly forget all their knowledge and skills when they stop working to take care of their children and revert to an uneducated and unskilled cliché.

Which is absolutely not the case. Educated and experienced women bring their skills and experience to parenthood and actually have the time and energy to apply them to bringing up their children.

Your children should love and respect you - but I actually don't like the adage that you should 'demand respect'.

The only people in my life who have demanded respect were those least likely to deserve it or feel it for themselves.

i do suggest (and research bears this out) that prolonged period away from work makes re-entry harder

i dont presuppose the woman has lost her abilities or skills.having a baby doesnt render one incapable.but institutional and casual sexism in workplace is a hard struggle.and pragmatically no recent experience competing against current experience is going to be hard

and in some fields 5+ years out is a v long time.specialisms move,change and so does the work practices

So you swear by research that shows that periods away from the workplace makes re entry harder but completely disregard research that doesn't fit into your world view on childcare?

You respond with a quite different point on re-entry to the workplace (a point which is more valid in an institutional context than an entrepreneurial one).

My point is that a parent at home can provide a great deal of valuable educational input and guidance to children.

I have come to this late I know, but here goes...
I see where you're coming from. My DH works very long hours and we have 4 boys. I value what he does but sometimes feel its not reciprocated, and it's very hard not to feel irked when they feel its ok to criticise.

I have to say teenagers are far more demanding than toddlers. I have both at the moment and although my 3 yr old is exhausting - its physical not mental exhaustion, which I can deal with. The teens do my head in and actually need you around much more than toddlers. When my older ones were young I worked first f/t then p/t both of which were hard, but p/t is the real killer as you don't really work p/t just f/t in fewer hours. Now I am a SAHM and it IS hard work - and SUCH dull repetitive work, and I feel undervalued quite a lot. I often shout at my boys that they are lazy and selfish! This has no effect whatsoever btw, but makes me feel better.

Anyway I think everyone who has said you are lucky and shouldn't complain are wrong, clearly you are feeling hurt and for good reason. As for those that preach about having young children being harder work - all I can say is: JUST YOU WAIT!

I do agree you should talk to your DH about your feelings and also your DCs, if you suffer in silence nothing will change. I have had these conversations over the last few years and it has helped - albeit temporarily! Ultimately I have a good relationship with my DH and we have a lot of respect for each other, I know this even though it sometimes gets lost under the day to day grind. Good luck!

Research on childcare is conflicting and proves absolutely nothing conclusive btw