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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Because I didn't have a go at this woman?

211 replies

BupcakesandCunting · 08/09/2011 14:36

On the bus just with my 4 year old. He likes to sit on those "high-up" seats behind the driver's cabin because he can see out of the window properly. The bus was pretty much empty so he sat himself in one of these two seats and I sat in the first "normal" seat after his seat.

About four stops later, two women get on the bus. One is about sixty-five, the other looks slightly younger. The elder of the two sat on the other high up seat next to my son, then her friend said to him "Can I ask you to move onto another seat please?" He looked a bit startled but got up and moved... then promptly burst out crying (probably tired as first week at school!) He didn't know why the woman had made him move from his seat and it really upset him. I thought she might have acknowledged me since she made my son move from his seat for some reason that I can't work out (these seats aren't disabled seats or designated for other passengers and since the bus was empty, the two women could have still sat together, just on another pair of seats)

My boy cried all the way home, the lady sat behind me made eye contact with me and told me that I shouldn't have let her dictate to my son about seating. Blush DS has been asking why I let the lady be rude to him and why she was allowed to take his seat. I would use the paying child versus non-paying child argument but she had a bus pass, or the infirm and elderly argument (needing seat closer to door) but she was very able-bodied (had rambling clothes on and a huge rucksack)

Should I have stuck up for my son and let him stay sat there? He's really cross about it! He's not a brat btw, I would just imagine being sat staring out of a window minding your own then told to leave your seat is a bit weird when you're four!

OP posts:
usualsuspect · 08/09/2011 14:53

Ooooooh a bus thread ...

were you breastfeeding? did you have a big buggy?

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 08/09/2011 14:53

"Can I ask you to move onto another seat please?"

That's not rude.

To you, or to I, no it isn't. But to a four year old, it probably seems it. No perspective. He can't express himself the way that you or I would because of limited vocabulary and what-not so he says that he thought it was "rude". The way that he thinks I am being rude if I say no biscuits before dinner etc etc.

OP posts:
messymammy · 08/09/2011 14:55

Your 4yo son thinks no biscuits before dinner is rude? Hmm

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 08/09/2011 14:55

I wasn't breastfeeding and my son doesn't need a buggy. But I did have my right boob out and have my huge Graco travel system with me anyway. Just because I like to rile people on buses. I also had N-Dubz pumping out of my tinny iPod speakers. Wink

OP posts:
bemybebe · 08/09/2011 14:56

"Are we only allowed to post about life-threatening, earth-shattering problems these days?"

Not at all. But the tone of your OP gives this trivial episode "life-threatening, earth-shattering" status. I hope you and your ds will recover.

BeerTricksPotter · 08/09/2011 14:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 08/09/2011 14:56

NO he doesn't think it's "rude", he struggles to convey his real thoughts because he is four. He probably means "unfair" or something similar. What I said about limited vocabulary....

OP posts:
libelulle · 08/09/2011 14:57

A request can be polite but unreasonable! If someone randomly asked me to give up my seat on a nearly empty bus, without any context or explanation, I don't think I'd accept. Asking a 4 year old is even worse because they are easier to intimidate.

ledkr · 08/09/2011 14:57

When im old i am going to use my busspass specifically to ride around moaning about seating,pushchairs,noisy kids etc.I will make sure that i am always riding around at peak times such as on the first 2 buses after the local schools close to maximise my chances of being irritated.
I am then going to spend the evening looking on mn to see how many threads have been started about me.
I will wear ill fitting sandals and eat a lot of chocolate.
If i tire of this i will drive my Aston Martin which i blew my pension on,to the supermarket and park in all the p and c spaces one at a time.

bemybebe · 08/09/2011 14:57

btw, probably a quiet sensitive talk to your ds about what qualifies to be called "rude" and deserves "standing up to" is in order...

Original poster
BupcakesandCunting · 08/09/2011 14:57

Yes Beertricks, that's what I was trying to say.

If someone said to him "could I have your seat as I struggle sitting on the others" I know he'd just do it because he knows he'd get an earful from me if he didn't.

OP posts:
HerHissyness · 08/09/2011 14:58

My mum is 70 (not that she'll thank me for saying it) but there is no way she'd ask a child to get out of a seat on a bus!

When I was younger, we were taught to respect the elderly, the 60/70 year olds of then had lived as adults through war, fought, lost relatives both to war and to general infections that do not kill people today. The Elderly of today were the 40 year olds of then. The most that these people lived though were the Swinging Sixties!

Just because people are old and grey, does not mean that they act with the manners, grace and dignity we are taught to respect.

That old woman was rude, greedy, entitled and rude. ONLY if the bus was full should she have asked for a seat. She chose to sit on a seat occupied by a young child so she could demand he moved.

Should you have had a 'go' OP? No. not a GO, because it'd make YOU look bad.

But I think if it were me, I'd quietly say, "Do you really have to insist on that seat?" that he was there first and that there are many other seats available. And I'd point out the seats for the disabled/priority seats too.

bemybebe · 08/09/2011 15:00

"That old woman was rude, greedy, entitled and rude."

Don't forget "rude" your herhissyness. Wink

SueFlay · 08/09/2011 15:02

You did miss a prime opportunity for some good old passive aggression. You could have done a bit of Loud Praising of your son with a bit of "it was very generous of you to give up your seat when the lady could have just as easily sat somewhere else"

Vallhala · 08/09/2011 15:07

Rude?

WHERE was the woman rude? Hmm

AllGoodNamesGone · 08/09/2011 15:11

I would sit next to him on the high seats next time and see if anyone asks you to move...

She sounds to have been in no more need of the seat than anyone else and it wasn't a priority seat anyway. Mayyyyyyybe she had a hidden disability (though she appeared to have managed a nice long country walk OK) but, if that was the case, how was she to know whether your son didn't have one too?

If the bus had been full, I'd have expected a child to sit with his parent so that others could sit with their friends/family but you say there were plenty of other seats the ladies could have taken.

When my DS1 was about 8, we went to the cinema, got there nice and early and settled ourselves and our popcorn in some nice seats near the back and on the end of a row. I then needed the toilet and, when I got back, found DS sitting several seats away, in the middle of the row, and quite upset as a couple had come along and asked him (politely - like the bus lady!) to move up so they could "sit together" - no reason why they couldn't have sat together but in the middle of the row, in the seats he'd felt he was made to move to. I did go and speak (politely!) to them but they didn't seem to think they'd done anything wrong. Basically they just wanted the aisle seats and picked a child on his own to shove along. I am sure they wouldn't have asked, had I been there at the time and I'd have said no anyway unless they could come up with a better reason for needing the seats more than we did. Ohh, writing it down makes me cross about it now!!

As your son is only little, I'd just tell him that sometimes old ladies (since anyone over about 30 looks like and old lady when you are four lol) are a bit funny about where they sit and that he was a lovely polite boy to let the lady have the seat and that sometimes you do just have to let this kind of thing go rather than have an argument on the bus and hold everyone up. It was one of the hardest things I found to explain to my children when they were small, why I expected a certain level of good manners from them but other people could get away with things. No easy answers.

corriefan · 08/09/2011 15:11

Poor kid I bet he felt really stung and confused! However maybe she just kind of (wrongly) dismissed him; she must have realised with him crying though, which is punishment enough I think! YANBU to keep quiet- very dignified!

libelulle · 08/09/2011 15:22

Valhalla if someone asked you to move seats for no good reason on an empty bus, would you just think to yourself 'oh, ok, why not, I'll inconvenience myself just to appease this person's random whim' and shift seats without a second thought? You wouldn't for a single second think 'hang on, that's a bit of an off thing to ask'? You are certainly good-natured!

Or do you think he should have moved just because he was 4, and therefore less of a person than you?

Ifancyashandy · 08/09/2011 15:26

I think I would have asked her if there was a specific reason she wanted that seat. If it had been due to a disability, then fair enough. If it'd been 'because I want to' then I would have politely pointed out that he was there first and there were plenty of other sets of 2 seats available elsewhere on the bus. And smiled sweetly.

messymammy · 08/09/2011 15:30

Actually, a man in the doctor's waiting room on Tuesday asked me if he could have my seat the other day, even though there were others available, as he wanted to sit next to the door "for the air" (probably anxiety). What if it were a similar case with your ds and the lady didn't want to announce to everyone why?

It's hardly that much of an inconvenience anyway is it?

As my grandad used to say, "it's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice"

worraliberty · 08/09/2011 15:30

The lady wasn't rude at all.

I expect she's from a generation where children glady gave up their seats for their elders and didn't question why...let alone think they're being rude when they're asking politely.

scurryfunge · 08/09/2011 15:32

Stay away from public transport. It causes far too many MN dilemmas.

Bellavita · 08/09/2011 15:42

I would have said something to her.

If it is a normal seat why the hell should she have priority over it just because she is an older lady?

SiamoFottuti · 08/09/2011 15:50

you should probably try and teach himam to be a little less sensitive, maybe by not indulging him in it.

create · 08/09/2011 15:51

I am surprised someone would ask him to move if there was genuinely somewhere equally convient for her to sit and might be a bit out out, but I do think it's odd that both he and you are still upset about it. I would have thought a 4yo could take a simple explaination and some distraction and get over it pretty quickly. The high seat with more leg roo probably did make it easier with her "huge" backpack though.

If your DS thinks what she said was rude, then it's up to you to explain that actually she was very polite.

Re the "seriousness" of your thread, I think that's when MN is at it's best, when a bunch of friendly (tho sometimes outspoken) people are chatting about trivia.

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