To think that SOME (not all) working Mums take the P@ss

[Islandlady]

Long story short, my mate works in an office with 2 WMs neither seem to work a full week or full hours but my mate fully understands the pressures and responsibilities of a WM so hasnt really complained even though she has been in the office until 8 sometimes to get the work done when she has been on her own due to both WMs being off especially during the school hols when there has been child care problems.

But now she is hopping mad, she booked a holiday to come and stay with me and DH on the island way back in February - she would have liked to have come during Cowes week but thats during August so decided to come for Bestival which starts end of this week, she has booked and paid for her Ferry tickets plus booked and paid for her animals to go into kennels, her holiday has been on the office planner and the office diary since Feb I have booked the same time off work and my DH has cleared his freelance work so we can all spend time together we will do Bestival and then she will stay at ours and we will go out for days (if it stops raining)

Last week one of the Mums blithly tells her that she is taking her DS to Disney World next week as its cheaper and if she doesnt go he wont have had a proper holiday and expected my Mate to fall in with her plans IE cancel her own Holiday.

The Boss is being a wimp, he says they cant both go together, first he says if they argue neither can take the time off, then after my Mate complained to the MD has agreed that she can go and the Mum cant.

Now my mate is a pariah in the office the Mum spent all Monday weeping in the toilet and took Tuesday off with 'stress' Mate has had to endure comments like 'I hope you are proud of yourself' from the other Mum in her office and another Mum called her (my Mate) selfish and nasty.

aibu to think thats its Working Mums like that who give other WMs a bad name and even stop some employers taking them on, or would the WMs here
think my Mate is the unreasonable one

sorry for long post

fanjobanjo -wwell it sounds to me like she's laid into someone for abolutely no reason apart from the fact she has the nous and intelligence to negotiate reasonable working conditions for herself. If the employer wasn't able to accommodate them then it's a reasonable assumption they wouldn't have offered her the job. After all, they're an employer, not a charity.

She's attacking 'easy' targets (lone parent with a a lack of support who has managed to get a decentish job...very courageous there), and also thinks it's pretty much tough if someone has become an lp because their partner has died cos why should other colleagues have to pick up their slack?

Not reasonable or fair in my book.

I worked out you didn't have children early on from your posts kelly.

keepthechange,
Most companies do not allow people to hog the chirstmas etc holidays every year simply because they booked it up. If someone gets caught trying to do that, they normally get told it is not their turn.
And Loudlass has said she takes christmas off regardless of whether she books it first or not. But it does not sound as if her boss is automatically allowing her the time because of her negotiations. parental leave is a legal right, and she could not book the days off as paid leave this year, and only gets them next year if she gets in quick enough.

I'm not going to discuss Loudlass anymore actually kelly - it's starting to feel not only inappropriate but also like a sustained attack. Just sayin.

I repeat, for the hard of thinking, if YOU feel that the holiday culture in your workplace is unfairly slanted towards people with children then you can either work to try and change that, or you can leave the job.

The same as all of us.

Apologies for talking about you as if you aren't there loudlass.

'Peachy,
It is good when a team work together, but only if they work together and not solely to benefit one person. If you only have to work once christmas every two or even three years, it is not that hard and not unfair. Having to work every christmas is

of course

which is why they all worked togather (IIRC the boss said 'either sort it out or you are all in' LMAO)

What because if I had children I would behave like an entitiled bully in your opinion. There are plenty of people on here with children who also behave like adults.
In your mind anyone without a child is entitled if they asked to be treated fairly. And I have not laid into loudlass at all, she put herself up an an example and asked what she was supposed to do because the three fathers of her children do nto want them at christmas. My answer is that at the end of the day it is her responsibility not her coworkers, and having to find childcare once every two years is not a big burden.

I agree KeeptheChange, it leaves a nasty taste.

I don't get the point of the argument. Surely the answer is blindingly obvious? We've been looking for equality for a long time. Equal treatment in the workplace, as women, as mothers, we should be treated exactly the same as men, as childfree women, as anyone.
Whatever system that is in place to work out holiday and leave arrangements should be the same for everyone, it should be fair to all. Anything else has to be your own arrangement.

even if she didnt work she'd still be an arse

WRt to LL

surely we all negotiate contracts when we go for jobs?

I;ve told new employers at interview stage laods times about booked holiday I wanted to stand, or that on one occasion I did a college course on a Tuesday so needed to be out 30 minutes early 9they ahd flexi, made it up)

If you don;t ask then- well it's a bit silly isn't it? A job is a trade off; your experience and effort for pay and whatever T&C they agree to.

Well, you're behaving a bit like an 'entitled bully' (your words) right now kelly.

That would be fine if it was generally accepted that men and women have equal responsibility for childcare Siamo, but I suspect that's an argument for a different thread altogether.

Quite, peachy.

Who is behaving like an entitled bully? Childless people can be equally as unreasonable and bullying as those with children.

I suppose if a person (again I ask you to stop bringing specific posters into your, quite frankly, childish debating points) negotiated to get paid more than someone else then that person whould hand over a couple of grand every couple of years to that other worker.

Siamo - I agree completely with "Anything else has to be your own arrangement".

Flip, why is she behaving like an entitled bully?

I don't understand why wanting equality in the workplace for everyone mothers and childless and dads alike is such a problem for you flip?

It's not equality if someone doesn't pull their weight with regards to working a day like xmas day.

Regardless of the reason.

What's courageous about getting a job? All of us have to get a job, there's nothing courageous about it!

Loudlass negotiated her position before she started her job If she had negotiated to earn £10k more than someone else - and the employer had accepted that and thought she was worth that extra 10K because of her experience and what she'd be bringing to the role, would that be unfair as well?

That wouldn't happen because if the role required experience worth an extra 10k it clearly wouldn't be the same same job as the other coworkers who are working xmas day. In this instance we are talking about doing exactly the same job.

It's unfair of the employer to agree that she never has to do an xmas shift if everyone has exactly the same job as her and does have to work xmas as part of it.

I didn't say she hadn't done well to negotiate that for herself, doesn't make it fair on every fecker else!

It's not remotely a problem for me fanjo. I'm not sure how you've picked that up from my posts and would be grateful if you could provide evidence to support your comment. I'd love it if working mums and dads werer treated equally, but we're a long way from that happening - hence all the hoo ha on here over working mums.

I am calling kelly an 'entitled bully' (although if you read back you'll say I said she was acting a bit like that) because she has repeatedly singled out and had a go at one poster which is verging on bullying behaviour.

I don't agree. It's very amusing to me though, all these cries of "It's UNFAIR!"

It's perfectly "fair" for any one of us, as employees to negotiate and talk to our employers about the things we would like to make our working lives easier.

If you want Xmas/Easter/August off work, then book it before anyone else does. If your company keeps certain times "free" for employees with children, and you think that's unfair then you can either leave your job, re-negotiate your contract or bitch about it on an internet site!

Oh and fanjo, if you really think that everyone doing the same job earns the same money regardless of age/experience/sex then you are mistaken.

BTW, in the case of the woman in the OP. Of course she is being immensly unreasonable and it's tough shit that she can't go on holiday as SHE DIDN'T BOOK IT FIRST.

I didn't mean that getting a job was courageous, I meant it sarcastically; although I can see how it might read differently.

I understand where you are coming from now flip!

KEEPTHECHANGE: Fuck off, I am not an idiot that believes everyone doing the same job gets paid the same, Loudlass has said this is a minimum wage paying retail job. THAT is why your comparison with the 10k blah is ridiculous.
Get the high and mighty rod out of your arse.

If your company keeps certain times "free" for employees with children, and you think that's unfair then you can either leave your job, re-negotiate your contract or bitch about it on an internet site!

actually i think you should take them to court for sexual discrimination (if you are a man). sexual discrimination = different and less favourable treatment on the grounds of sex.

Excuse me?

Blimey fanjo. That's a bit much isn't it?

Was I rude to you? I don't think I was, but then again, me telling you that you are "mistaken" is certainly on a par with telling me to "fuck off" in your worldI will NOT get the rod out of my arse thanks very much, it turns me on.

(I think you might have mixed up your metaphors)

"Oh, and fanjo, if you really think"

So contant sarcasm and twatty "actions" and speaking to someone like they are a moron aren't rude now? I always try and refrain from responding to that kind of twattishness but you are beyond belief.

Oh, and (I think you may have mixed up your metaphors)

Twat

Ah well. I'm sorry to have upset you so much fanjo.

What with you being so polite and kind to everyone round the boards and that!

Loudless kept putting herself up as an example and asking about her situation. I told loudlass why I thought she was unfair after she asked, I then replied after she and others disagreed with me and kept asking what she should do etc. If you think that loudless should not put herself up as an example then tell her, do not rush around telling everyone that they cannot reply to loudless unless it is to tell her they agree.
But I disgreed so that means I am a bully to you, and I think people should be treated fairly at work even if they do not have children means I am entitled to you! The idea that it is unfair for parents to do their fair share of holidays is comical. It would mean they do christmas etc once every two, or even three years depending on the size of the company. saying that if someone has to find an extra couple of days childcare every two or three years they would have to quit the job is just silly.
You obviously do have a problem with equal rights in the workplace as you claimed I was entitled after I said the childless and those with children be treated eqully. How is wanting equality mean anyone is entitled?