To think that SOME (not all) working Mums take the P@ss

[Islandlady]

Long story short, my mate works in an office with 2 WMs neither seem to work a full week or full hours but my mate fully understands the pressures and responsibilities of a WM so hasnt really complained even though she has been in the office until 8 sometimes to get the work done when she has been on her own due to both WMs being off especially during the school hols when there has been child care problems.

But now she is hopping mad, she booked a holiday to come and stay with me and DH on the island way back in February - she would have liked to have come during Cowes week but thats during August so decided to come for Bestival which starts end of this week, she has booked and paid for her Ferry tickets plus booked and paid for her animals to go into kennels, her holiday has been on the office planner and the office diary since Feb I have booked the same time off work and my DH has cleared his freelance work so we can all spend time together we will do Bestival and then she will stay at ours and we will go out for days (if it stops raining)

Last week one of the Mums blithly tells her that she is taking her DS to Disney World next week as its cheaper and if she doesnt go he wont have had a proper holiday and expected my Mate to fall in with her plans IE cancel her own Holiday.

The Boss is being a wimp, he says they cant both go together, first he says if they argue neither can take the time off, then after my Mate complained to the MD has agreed that she can go and the Mum cant.

Now my mate is a pariah in the office the Mum spent all Monday weeping in the toilet and took Tuesday off with 'stress' Mate has had to endure comments like 'I hope you are proud of yourself' from the other Mum in her office and another Mum called her (my Mate) selfish and nasty.

aibu to think thats its Working Mums like that who give other WMs a bad name and even stop some employers taking them on, or would the WMs here
think my Mate is the unreasonable one

sorry for long post

[Peachy]

Morloth quite.

I agree Nooka that it's about leave policy but it's also about the lack of availability of flexible childcare. Someone upthread mentioned emergency childcare and that can eb excellent but we used to hold alist of emergency childcarers when i worlked for the aprenting charity and often as not nobody was available when it was needed. And if the child doens;t fit to type- so back to kids with SN etc- they often can't go anyway without either lots of induction and access planning or some bod from SSD yelling at you that if your child hits someone then it's your own liability (yep has happened to me when iwas trying to find childcare prior to going into labour- ended up with a doula instead).

LL does yopur contract state when you cannot work? Would it be an idea to get that done under flexible working rules, force them to think rather than assume people are happy to cover with no arragements put in place?

When Dh realised he could not be in at a certain time he used flexible work rules to get that sorted but although he ended up working regular shifts (autistic kids couldn;t cope with meltdowns) other colleagues won too becuase dh was doing 5 shifts instead of 4 and always doing one weekend night, with a total of more hours than before- that was fine for the trade off (Dh starting at 10 instead of 9 to help with the worst times with ds1).

It really should be about working to find ways to order things for everyone's benefit.

[Ifancyashandy]

Goth the point is Loudass does want / expect / need - call it what you will - those Hight Days and Holidays off every year. She has quite clearly said she will be taking them regardless of any colleagues holiday requests. In fact, she said she would just not turn up if she had been rota'd for those days.

When I asked if she thought it acceptable that she work one year / and I (hypothetically) worked the following and thus flip flopped and worked as a team, she said she would aways take those days off and I would be leaving the company in the lurch.

It's all in the thread.

[kelly2000]

Nooka,That is exactly right, it should be fair and balanced.
Peachy,
Christmas is on the same day each year, and if a worker is only working every other christmas that means they have two years to find childcare. Not exactly an emergency situation. I do not have an issue for sudden emergencies - that happens, I have an issue that some people think they are entitled to christmas off year in year out simply because they have children.

[Peachy]

I don;t think childcare exists at Christmas for many people though.

That's a shame but it's so; if youa re single perhaps, and no familya round. I know it's not possible to even get childcare here after 6 or at weekends so short of hiring a Nanny (in retail unlikely to be feasible) the options are none whether you have twenty years. My sister works 7 - 7 and could not do it if she did not have Mum on all back home; she tus the lcoal nurseries and has to be there 30 minutes either side of last child leaving / arriving and she is wella ware her lifestyle hinges on Mum's health and willingness. No matter how dedicated she is- she doesn't manage a fleet of nurseries and drive a Saab for nothing!

And under emergency childcare comes the task of fitting children into provisions for once off occasions (eg if Mum is in hospital) or if a chidlcare provider is sick; perhaps it should be better named 'irregular chidlcare' but we often used the system well in advance to fit people into the chidlcare system for odd days for reviews / training sessions / whatever.

And I don;t know that; simply becuase they ahve children; it's mroe becuase they ahve chidlren and no access to support: the support bit could easily be addressed by the appropriate bodies if it were considered essential.

At some level though a parent has to mae a call: I hate upsetting and annoying people but if it came down to anoying someone at work or accepting a miserable life of benefits and a term of homelessness well clearly the work stays and I just have to accept I upset someone, for the sake of my kids, who have to come first.

[kelly2000]

peachy,
You can get childcare at christmas, people on here have even posted about it. Not everyone even celebrates christmas, and so two or even three years is plenty of time to find someone to look after your children for a day. It is not reasonable to say people who have to find a christmas childcare once every two or three years will have no choice but to quit their jobs. At the end of the day childcare is the responsibility of the parents not the co-workers.

And just as your children are more important to you than colleagues, so the things in your colleagues lives are more important to them than you or your children. If you can get in written into your contract then fine, but just expecting that others will have to work christmas etc for you because you have to arrange childcare is unreasonable. The attitude that I cannot sort out childcare two years in advance so I am taking christmas off regardless of anyone else's leave or needs is taking the piss, and it puts people off hiring parents especially at times like this when employers do have a lot more options.

[Peachy]

Somehow I suspect people who can get it don't live in rural south wales!

And actually you are assuming a lot about my attitude becuase as I have staed my kids are too disabled toa ccess childcare anyway, and Dh and I are working to find ways f workinga round each otehr.

But I can see how other lives would differ measurably.

[kelly2000]

I meant the general "i have kids, i therefore am taking christmas off each and every year regardless of others needs and wishes" attitude, not yours specifically.

[Peachy]

RIght well I seems to me that people have two decisions:

accept that some things are never going to be fair and let it get them down

accept somethings are set in stone but that many things can be worked around and make their owrk environment a happier palce by doing that (eg look towards home offices where feasibel, splitting shifts on the popular holiday dates, encouraging teh development of workplace nurseries whatever)

fiught like tooth and nail for eevery single priveledge and get everyone else down and make themselves unhappy


Me, I am after the middle option.

Every workplace is different and so are the solutions- it might be in a care home that people sacrifice x% of their income to cover the cost of an agency staff member, or like dh's where if you do come in Christmas you only work a half shift and get a guaranteed cover shift for the next holiday; it might be agreeing to do a 4 day week of longer days for your hours and same pay then the saving (on staff those extra hours you used) used to cover a student on a Sunday in retail.

but there is almost always some way to work towards a happier outcome that resentful staff.

[LSAR]

It is not a working mum issue this could of happen with another person in the office. It is a normal issue in a work place people wanting the time off and not getting it cos someone else has it then they ask you to swap I got that I said No cos I did get it first. I would never take the mick as some WM have done not many though cos we need the money. You got to think maybe somethings going on for that WM to get so stress or maybe she is really just wanting to give her kids a holiday cos all their friends have gone or going away and her kids feel left out. She may feel bad and guilt like her kids are gona miss out or something I reckon there is more to this WM issue. Anyway your friend should not feel bad or get treated bad in anyway.

[hairylights]

It's a working parent issue when it's parents who are doing this! It is more prevalent IMHO with parents who stomp their feet and demand that they should be given the pick of time off I've encountered it over and over again.

I've never had someone tell me that because they are young and into partying, they should have the pick of time off.

But I've often had parents tell me that due to them being parents, they must have priority.

[northerngirl41]

Completely agree hairylights

I can't think any other lifestyle choice which gets protected by law either - it would be fairer if everyone was entitled to ask for flexible working or discretionary days off when having a domestic crisis, but only parents actually get the legal protection, and thus is breeds resentment when say, a parent gets to leave at 4:45pm each day to pick up their child from nursery, but someone with an elderly parent suffering from alzheimers isn't allowed to wait till the home help arrives to start work @ 9:15am.

It's a double standard and it shouldn't be allowed.