To think that SOME (not all) working Mums take the P@ss

[Islandlady]

Long story short, my mate works in an office with 2 WMs neither seem to work a full week or full hours but my mate fully understands the pressures and responsibilities of a WM so hasnt really complained even though she has been in the office until 8 sometimes to get the work done when she has been on her own due to both WMs being off especially during the school hols when there has been child care problems.

But now she is hopping mad, she booked a holiday to come and stay with me and DH on the island way back in February - she would have liked to have come during Cowes week but thats during August so decided to come for Bestival which starts end of this week, she has booked and paid for her Ferry tickets plus booked and paid for her animals to go into kennels, her holiday has been on the office planner and the office diary since Feb I have booked the same time off work and my DH has cleared his freelance work so we can all spend time together we will do Bestival and then she will stay at ours and we will go out for days (if it stops raining)

Last week one of the Mums blithly tells her that she is taking her DS to Disney World next week as its cheaper and if she doesnt go he wont have had a proper holiday and expected my Mate to fall in with her plans IE cancel her own Holiday.

The Boss is being a wimp, he says they cant both go together, first he says if they argue neither can take the time off, then after my Mate complained to the MD has agreed that she can go and the Mum cant.

Now my mate is a pariah in the office the Mum spent all Monday weeping in the toilet and took Tuesday off with 'stress' Mate has had to endure comments like 'I hope you are proud of yourself' from the other Mum in her office and another Mum called her (my Mate) selfish and nasty.

aibu to think thats its Working Mums like that who give other WMs a bad name and even stop some employers taking them on, or would the WMs here
think my Mate is the unreasonable one

sorry for long post

"I think some of the problems stem from the fact that often people consider working fathers to be workers who happen to have children, and mothers as working mothers doing all the childcare whilst the father swans around as if all he has to do is go to work."

Exactly! Many fathers seem to think this, as well as mothers, and colleagues. It is of great disservice to women, and makes the problems facing single parents harder to negotiate, too, IMO.

So if my job works Xmas, and there are say 3 of us, if I say I can't get childcare I should get every single Xmas off and they should work everyone? And no doubt they should work to cover my childrens illnessses and so on, and inset days from school, and there own lives should always come second to my children.
Yeah, that seems fair.

So far, in 13 years of having dc, I have taken 10 days as unpaid parental leave when my dc got chickenpox, 4 days to cover my DS2 when he was seriously ill in hospital on life support (chronic asthma, he's ok now though, it's slightly better controlled now), and 3 days to cover medical appointments for DD that COULD NOT be rearranged to a day I wasn't booked to work. I have MANY more days I could take - but I use them for emergencies, or times like Christmas when I cannot get childcare. Which IS a reason parental leave can be used. So I've taken 17 days out of 13 weeks, in 13 years.

Loudlass,
I am not meaning to pick on you, but just pointing out why others may have a problem with working the holidays year in year out, which is why a lot of companies do not allow the first dibs thing to work for christmas, NY and easter.

Well, that would be the situation if we worked together but that's because I'm childless. I would absolutely accept it for one year but would make it clear that I would be taking the Christmas / New Year / Bank Hols (delete as applicable) the following year. Both the employer and the colleague would have a year to sort alternative cover. Enough time I feel. Of course, we would flip flop back the 3rd year. Afterall, that's team work.

I'm not saying it's fair, just that if my children's fathers WONT step up and behave like responsible parents, then I HAVE to. EVERY TIME.

I am NOT in charge of my Ex's, and cannot MAKE them behave reasonably (which is part of the reason I am no longer WITH them...). While it IS unfair, I fully expect to do this for other people when my own dc are older. Inset days aren't that difficult to cover - the after-school club opens all day for those. Children's illnesses - well what ARE you meant to do with them? Send them to school with CP?

Then YOU would be leaving your employer in the lurch just as much as I would be - as I would HAVE TO TAKE UNPAID PARENTAL LEAVE.Which I would be entitled to do - you CAN use it for a short-term unavailability of your usual childcare. 2-3 days a year IS short-term unavailability of childcare.

Insomnia,
No-one is saying parents cannot have christmas off, we are saying this should be shared with other colleagues i.e year on/year off rather than other colleagues being discriminated against and having to work every christmas.

Flip,
I am sorry I disagree. It is not reasonable for a mother or a father, to tell the other parent that they are not going to take responsibility for their own children so a colleague of theirs will have to.
It is not fair or reasonable that one person gets to have every holiday off and their colleagues do not.

I wouldn't call a years notice 'leaving in lurch'. You would have a year to arrange alternative child care and I fail to see that as unreasonable. You could save for a childminder / ask a friend a year in advance.

You are coming across as extremely entitled TBH. And please stop shouting.

But then, I make it plain to the employer when discussing availability for work, and what shifts you can work, that I am unable to find childcare for those 3 days (I can cover most bank holidays with friends, but not Christmas da, Boxing day or NYD) - at the interview stage. The employer would be the one that decided to take me on anyway, so it should be the EMPLOYER that people are annoyed with, surely (for employing someone they KNEW would have this issue)- not the LP with childcare issues? My employer was left in no doubt that if I am unable to book paid holiday for those 3 days, then I will HAVE to take unpaid leave.

Which hasn't been a problem. But then, I have managed to get a babysitter for NYD this year - so I am able to work one out of the 3 that I can't normally. NADA for Christmas or Boxing day though. I AM taking unpaid leave this year (only just been given the job, didn't book holiday early enough), but my boss has no problem with that.

I personally don't mind working over major holidays ie christmas/easter whatever as they do not hold any significance for me, my employer allows us to bring chidlren in during boxing day new years eve etc, I don't mind working those days and have childcare sorted for the days anyway.

But I can see it being a bit much for those who do celebrate these holidays if they had to step aside each year for the parents.

Loudlass,
If the father's refuse to look after the childen speak to the CPS, and demand they pay for the extra childcare. As far as I am concerned if a man has a child and leaves that child is still his and is responsible for 50% of the childcare and costs.
Ifancyashandy
You are right, expecting everyone else to work christmas is taking the piss. And if the parents take unpaid leave then that is their choice, but expecting everyone else to work the holidays for you is the exact sort of thing that gives working parents a bad name.

Loudlass,
Earlier you said it was OK that you did not work those days as you booked, then you say that a childless person who books them a year in advance is leaving people in the lurch, and that if you cannot book those days you are taking parental leave anyway.

you want to stop shouting atld people?

So just to be clear, if you worked with shandy, you think you should get every xmas off and she should work every year?

Loudlass- your situation is exactly what my colleagues attitude screwed up where I worked. The youngsters preferred NYE/NYD off rather than Xmas day. So when the rotas were released we'd have an informal meeting and hash it out amongst ourselves.

Naturally there were always a few who would try and get their shifts covered without returning the favour - but it normally worked.

What is your Xmas day shift? When we were younger my naeighbours 4 children used to come to ours if her mum was were rota'd Xmas day. They'd do main presents the night before with parents as FC made a special early stop. Then in the morning they'd bring stockings over to ours to open with us. It was fun.

I know it a big ask, but if you have any close friend they may not mind. As a single parent, there is never a easy cut and dried solution on public holidays, unless you have people willing to give and take for you

It's not your mates fault OR the WM's fault tbh.

They are being extremely poorly managed.

The WM IS being selfish, but her manager is allowing her to be.

You don't squabble over holiday dates. You book them in advanced and they are authorised by the management. This is to ensure that the workplace can still deliver.

If another person is denied holiday with the reason being given that someone else is off, it is blimmin cheeky, unless you have a good relationship with that person and it IS a REAL emergency, to ask the person who has the holiday to change their plans.

But it is extremely WEAK management to suggest that the employees tackle this themselves. Where is the leadership?

"If the father's refuse to look after the childen speak to the CPS, and demand they pay for the extra childcare. As far as I am concerned if a man has a child and leaves that child is still his and is responsible for 50% of the childcare and costs."

Because this idea totally works everyone! You see, if a man leaves his kids in the lurch, it's still the mother's fault for not chasing the CSA enough, or something.

Aaah missed your last post sorry, your employer knows you can't do it.

I booked in my PREVIOUS job - which I did state. This year, I have just GOT a new job (Ex-P walked out, when I was a SAHM, 4 months ago). Therefore I COULDN'T book early, so am taking it as unpaid parental leave this year. But in January - I WILL be booking for next year. Yes, it might be leaving them in the lurch - but not as MUCH as if someone else books those days off, and I then HAVE to take parental leave AS WELL.

What do the CPS have to do with getting Ex-P to pay extra childcare? All you can do is get them to pay CSA - which for 2 dc with Ex-P, I get £55 a week. Which WILL be going towards paying for my NORMAL childcare. I will not get anything extra from him - he is also in a low income job, CSA will not take any extra money from him. The CSA have given up on DD's father - he DID pay me £50 last week for her uniform - but that is the FIRST money he has given me in over 13 years. DS1's father, according to the CSA, pays me £1.36 maintenance a week, because he is bone fucking idle on JSA (for 9 fucking years), and his new partner has one dc already, plus they have one dc together, and another on the way (when this one arrives in January, I will get NO maintenace from my Ex-H).

My childcare costs will be £320 a week. Of which WTC will pay £210. The rest will come out of DS2 & DS3's maintenance (so not a penny will get spent on them from it), which STILL leaves me £55 a week to find for childcare.

Therefore, effectively, DS2 & DS3's dad IS covering half of the childcare that WTC doesn't cover - but then is contributing nothing towards their clothes, food, heat etc.

Im not allowed to take leave over christmas either.
Last year I put myself down to work an early christmas day, I didnt get it as all the childless workers had put themselves down to work a long day (double time). I could say THEY were selfish not allowing me to work for double time after all I need the money as much...(I of course didnt, I did a silent whoop for joy lol)

Because the CSA is totally fit for purpose, isn't it. . And £1.36 goes suuuuuuch a long way...suppose it goes further than the fuck all I'll get from him in January will.

I may have missed a trick, but is the Disneywoman a single wohm? When I was trying to get back to work as a single mother I was so reluctant to be perceived as a possible burden that I deliberately hid the fact that I had dc. I think that she is giving wohms a bad name. And I don't think that comparing being a mother to being black or gay is helpful. Neither of those would be used as an excuse to go to Disneyland. I went to two interviews leaving the dc in the car, out of sight. Agree with everyone who has called bad office management.

I always holiday in June as I have no kids ATM and it's cheaper...

I wanted one day off in August. One day!!!
Holiday year opened at 2nd of january

I was the first one in and booked in June dates, and one day off in aug

My boss then said I couldn't have aug as there are MOTHERs work here and she would have to consult with them?!

So I said'has anyone else actually requested that day off?'

Boss: 'well no...'

Me: 'well I'm not going to be discriminated against for being childless then and you had best book it in'

FFs not letting me have one days hol because there was an outside potential of a Mother asking for it!
I was raging

I got it though

(Before dc I always volunteered to work over Christmas. Triple pay and need to see my mother) I also used to do soup kitchen duty. Not altuism, just more enjoyable.