...to feel envious towards people who actually ENJOY looking after young children/babies?

[PacificDogwood]

Well, am I?

I am very lucky to have the size of family I hoped for.
So, ok, I don't go gooey at the sight of a newborn, but still kind of thought I would enjoy looking after babies/toddler/school aged children.
Not all the time, but sometimes.

I just don't.
I find it a relentless slog of repetitive nonsense, and I don't mean the washing/dressing/feeding etc, but the dealing with older kids' fighting, 3 year olds insanity temper tantrums and active 1 year old's.... well, active/climbing/teething/ 'normal' behaviour.

And I know all this will pass and I will mourn its passing.
But I still don't enjoy it.
And am envious of parents it seems to come to so much more effortlessly.
How do others cope with the total loss of control over their lives??

Well I am quite envious of people who managed to follow their hobbies with their toddlers at home. I must have done something wrong.

My hobby is trying to have a wee in peace currently.

OP, I think everyone hates it when their kids are bickering all the time. The trick is to find lots of things for them to do in different rooms, so you can separate them for a bit. Has worked a treat for me, this summer

I also don't know anyone who particularly enjoys the domestic chores associated with keeping children fed and clothed. It's just something that has to be done.

Those things would still need to be done if you were working full time, only you'd have to squash them in around a full time job. That doesn't seem like much fun either.

I think looking after children can involve a lot of drudgery, but you do it because there are fun, rewarding, joyous parts too. It's perfectly normal to not enjoy the parts where the kids are screaming at each other.

Xenia, it is insulting that you think only people lacking in intelligence would want to stay home with their dc on a full time basis. I suck up the bickering and housework parts, because I think what I'm doing is important for them and I'd sooner not risk missing all the good bits by outsourcing childcare.

Xenia I don't dispute that it was better for you to work full time, and you have been able to give your dc financial benefits, but what you haven't given them is as much time as I am giving to mine. Okay, you conclude that what you are giving is 'better' than what I give, but that doesn't make you right. It doesn't make me right either, but at least I don't imply you are stupid to have made the choice you did.

xenia is always right cause she's xenia.

Oh my, this is still going !
My venting was certainly not intended to start some kind of bun fight SAHM vs WOHM or discussing the relative merits of different types of childcare - there's too much of that on here repeatedly already.
Different strokes for different folks, and all that.

I do actually like spending time with young children - when they behave like children and not like savages. Actually, strike that, it does savages all over the world an injustice: like wild animals. With rabies. With PMT. On a bad day.
My ambition, too, is to have a pee without witnesses. Or somebody demanding to see my "'gina" (DS3 aged 3). Or having a poo with DS4 (17months) on my lap as he will not tolerate to see me from behind or be in a seperate room from me at all. Ever. Or to have to listen to DSs1 and 2 taking lumps out of each other, verbally or physically, while I am trying to wrestle the toilet paper from DS4. Or... Oh, you get the idea and I have already given TMI re our bathroom situation .

And anyway, this is my thread, and I am right; nobody else

I have ALL of tomorrow with my darling offspring to look forward to as DH will be working all day... and the weather is likely to be crap. Wish me luck.

"How do others cope with the total loss of control over their lives??" Mother's little helper.

xenia; I don't see myself as a low paid drudge but a proffessional nanny who loves working with young children. Yes! It's hard work and long hours but it's also fun and rewarding. I have been priviledged to see many little ones blossom and grow into happy well rounded young people over the yearsThe reasons childcare is often low paid in nurseries are numerous, usually linked to profit and parents often go for cheaper options to save money but that doesn't reflect on the childcarers themselves most of whom love their work and find it rewarding

As to pacificdogwood I'm sorry you don't enjoy your children but I wonder why you kept on having them if you really dislike motherhood so much. But don't be envious of those who do enjoy their children

Good to see the Telegraph publicising the survey of 1600 married women who found that those who shared domestic tasks with husbands were happier and those who work have less depression than those who don't. Never marry a sexist man.

Is that what you did Xenia, we learn by our mistakes eh!

1600 married women...................mmmmmmmmmmmmm that covers the whole country does'n it?

Are you like me and only take notice of surveys you believe in.

Pacific - YABU to be as has already been mentioned but YANBU to wish that it were easier for you!
I love looking after DS and I'm pretty sure it's because there is only one of him. Which means no fights, no "Muuuuummm, he/she said/did xyz" of the kind that my poor Mum had to put up with (3 of us).

I also agree with whoever said that you need more sleep to be able to cope better.

Re. the tantrumming 3yo - how well does he sleep? I have a friend with 4 boys, her 3rd DS (also 3) can be an utter demon. He has allergies so she has been trying other exclusions to see if they made a difference (which they did) - but the thing that made the BIGGEST difference was her DH going away for 2 nights so this particular DS wasn't disturbed by the chainsaw-like snoring. Better sleep = different boy. Disturbed sleep --> demonlike behaviour.

Another thing that may or may not help is your own expectations. You said you had a vision of a small pack of children all playing delightfully together - best forget that! My mum was an only child and she had 3 because she had always missed having brothers or sisters - but then she couldn't understand why we weren't grateful for each other?! We didn't get on terribly well as children and still aren't all that close as adults - just very different personalities and temperaments, I think.
So - change your expectations and then you will be less disappointed when they beat each other senseless.

Also, have they each got their own room? If they're unbearable, separate them and don't let them play together if they can't do it quietly/nicely.

Re. the 17mo - you're stuck with that one, sorry!

Hope there might be a smidgeon of something useful in there that might help!

Re why did I have all these kids if I don't like having them: I concede I probably liked the idea of them more than the reality of day-to-day dealing with them at this stage. And yes, I have adjusted my expectations. I only had 1 brother and we played and fought with each other - and left each other alone at times.

Re sleep: DS3 is the World's Best Sleeper, bar none . 12 hours at night and given the chance another 1-3 (!) hours in the afternoon. He has dropped his daily nap since he turned 3 and lost his dummy (I found it again, but never returned it ), but I still think he is getting plenty of sleep. And anyway his behaviour is not worse on days that he does not sleep.

And, as I said, I accept that IABU for being envious, but sometimes feelings just creep in...
Example: my mum recently turned 70 and had a huge bash for family and friends, 100+ people in a barn. Another family (cousin several times removed) with 4 children present. Their kids were all well behaved, sat at dinner, including the 19 months old, no kicking under the table. After dinner there were some speeches and the oldest 3 (10, 8, 6) recited fucking poetry. By heart!
Whilst I had cold dinner after chasing various combatants and was desperately trying to get DS4 to sleep who had not had a good night (unfamiliar surroundings and all that), moaning about the food. It frustrates me that they know how to behave, but don't. I am glad we made the effort to go to my mum's big event (it involved flying abroad), but did I enjoy it?? Not so much... And was I impressed/envious/in awe of the other family? You betcha.

I had a recent meeting at DSs1 and 2's about an entirely unrelated manner (DS1 is good with numbers and is getting additional work to support this) and the head, depute head and edu psychologist all commented on how polite, helpful and articulate they are . I just wish they could be like that at home more often...

What you saw with the mum whose kids were perfectly behaved was just a snapshot. They may have been utterly angelic that day and total demons the next.

I took my DC's out for lunch a couple of weeks ago. They behaved perfectly - no running around in the restaurant, sat still, ate all their food. anyone watching us would have thought I have 4 perfectly behaved children. Fast forward a week and they spent the whole day bickering and sniping at each other. Today DD (aged 3) has had a 20 minute scream and cry that started because her brother won't let her play Star Wars on the computer, morphed into a strop because her dress is purple and not red and ended with a loud complaint that our stairs are not pink!

She is back to being angelic again now.

A lot is about personality - my DS1 is so chilled out, he rarely gets in a mood. DS2 and DD are quite strong willed and prone to tantrums. DS3 is somewhere in the middle. Some people do have generally laid back kids, but most of us have a mixture . sometimes they'll play happily together for hours with no cross words, other times they'll be on the verge of WW3.

Can you imagine how unhappy our children would be if everyone found them dull and a chore? Not only their own parents but all those paid to look after them in a professional capacity.
You lot (and I probably mean xenia) should be bloody grateful that there are people like me who love being with small children (not babies, though, they really are dull and a chore to look after ). Without us, you wouldn't be able to sit in your shiny office, looking down your nose at those caring for your children, while you do the really important stuff.

It just happens to been in today's press (and of course like most intelligent women I sorted those things out before I was married and would not have tolerated for even a day any unfairness at home).

It's fascinating how the sexist press chooses to present the survey in the wrong way - the headlines are women cannot have it all. Yet all it is saying is work means women are less depressed and that women need to share chores at home with men if they work. It is not saying you cannot work and have children at all but the press like to suggest to women that they cannot work and have families but men can; It's bizarre.

i love my children.i love working.i am happy they went to nursery ft.this allowed me to work.but then i always knew id work ft,had it all planned and booked 12wk pg

i do wonder if the blissfully happy finger painting,song singing,flour in hair mum is a bit of media creation.she may well exist but i have never met her

honeypablo....I agree I feel sorry for all those children who have parents who would rather they be somewhere else.

save your sanctimonious sympathy for kids who need it
some children dont know when the next unkind word,punch,or abuse will come.but it will dome. these are the children we need to have compassion for. not loved,happy children whose parents work.you really need to get a sense of perspective on this.big time

has anyone said why have children if you dont watch them...leaving them in daycare orphanage.all day.

well I'm just become a SAHM while DH has gone back to work. The plan is to do it only while I'm on mat leave. It's been 2 weeks and I am SOOOOO bored. Looking forward to getting some structure back in my life. I do atm feel like I'm a better parent when I have hands off time with DD, like it gives me the distance to assess things properly.

We've had precious moments/'firsts' already scottishmummy.

Yes, children going to nursery is just plain out neglect and abuse. There is no other worse suffering children grow up with. Jeez.

I still maintain professional capacity looking after children is different to mothering.

I have sympathy for the abused children of course I do.

But I also have sympathy for the children in breakfast clubs....after school clubs....holiday clubs....etc etc.

Is that ok to have an opinion?

opine away,expect disagreement.i use all your aforementioned options and no qualms about doing so.it is good for my children to see mum as working role model.and the bulk of their wee pals all attend similar and same options

Most children need sufficient time with those who care about them. That doesn't mean 24/7 with the mother or father is best by any means. As we gave discussed in detail above very few cultures have a 24/7 thing going. The natural best way is bonds with variety. Chldren very much love and are bonded with parents who work as well as those who don't.

Most mothers even the die hard housewives send their children to school so presumably at that point they think the separation is not damaging.

I totally agree Xenia, children really do benefiy from multiple attachments. The children that take the longest to settle into school in reception are those that have never been away from their mothers.
However, I do have to say that I found this comment very patronising: "There's a reason childcare and house work is low paid and lowly regarded because it's dull and awful and no one with any sort of a brain tolerates it for long periods now nor in history. Even the Romans used slaves to help."
Just because I work with children doesn't mean I don't have a brain and couldn't do anything else. I am an ok mother but a bloody good nursery nurse/early years practitioner.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but you make sweeping generalisations and present them as fact, in a very patronising way.

the nursery staff at my nursery are all well qualified inc graduates
they are v good at their chosen career.

Nobody is suggesting that those working and enjoying to work with children are dull-witted or unable to do anything else or anything to that effect, are they?? If you are, then desist. It's rude and WRONG.
I am eternally grateful that my CM is the woman she is with the personality that allows her to look after 6 boys 12 and under 4 days/week and not kill them or go insane . I think she should have a medal.

This is more a ponder about why some people seem to enjoy it, have a direct insight into how a little mind works and how to connect with that.
I clearly just don't have that gift.

'Tis NOT about working/not working or what child care option you chose. And generalisation of any coloeur just never work, anyway

Also this is not a feminist question, the enjoyment one, I mean. One of the best baby whisperers I know is a man who had 3 children and then came to us to get a hold of a newborn . He is just brilliant with babies/toddlers with the patience of a saint, but sadily lives too far away to be of any day-to-day 'use' to us.