...to feel envious towards people who actually ENJOY looking after young children/babies?

[PacificDogwood]

Well, am I?

I am very lucky to have the size of family I hoped for.
So, ok, I don't go gooey at the sight of a newborn, but still kind of thought I would enjoy looking after babies/toddler/school aged children.
Not all the time, but sometimes.

I just don't.
I find it a relentless slog of repetitive nonsense, and I don't mean the washing/dressing/feeding etc, but the dealing with older kids' fighting, 3 year olds insanity temper tantrums and active 1 year old's.... well, active/climbing/teething/ 'normal' behaviour.

And I know all this will pass and I will mourn its passing.
But I still don't enjoy it.
And am envious of parents it seems to come to so much more effortlessly.
How do others cope with the total loss of control over their lives??

That post sounded a bit patronising - wasn't meant to be at all. I just get frustrated with the myth that motherhood will make us happy.

YANBU to not enjoy the baby stage. I just about tolerated my DDs until they turned 2 and got interesting.

YABU to be envious of anyone else. Life's too short. Accept who you are and be happy! If you keep measuring yourself against everyone else's public face you'll only ever find yourself coming up short.

Hi OP! You have responded to questions really well, so I'm going to throw in another slightly 'tough love' one:

You said in an early post that 'finding a nanny was at the top of your to do list' - however, you still don't have one. Would this be the case if it was really at the top of your to do list? I don't think so. So my guess is that you are (and this is the whole point of the thread, really) conflicted about it and it feels a bit like admitting defeat to actually go ahead and hire one. You're actually sabotaging your own efforts to create a more self-focused life because you deep down don't think you should have one. The point about 'always firefighting' is - I think - a convenient excuse. It's easy to distract ourselves with multiple lower-importance tasks than to deal with the Big Thing (ask me how I know.. )

So, my view is, you need to give up that guilt and just go for it. It sounds to me like you would be better suited working full-time and getting a nanny in to help on school days. Accept that lots of time with the kids really doesn't work for you (so think about whether you really want to stick with the decreased working hours...) and concentrate on shorter bursts of quality time.

FWIW, I work full time but the weekends are full-on family time. That makes them busy and I enjoy them but also enjoy 'me time' which for me comes from my job, which I love, during the week.

YANBU, by the way...

YADNBU

I have 4, and look enviously upon those with 2.

Fighting, bickering, arguing, shouting, noise, crap, crap, crap, day in, day out!

We can't afford a holiday this year so have 6 weeks at home

I am considering going to the GP to get anti d's!!!

Starting to hate it - alot.

I also had a rose tinted view of parenthood with 4 lovely kids all playing nicely together, board games, dens, cards etc. Going to bed with ease and never being LOUD!

If only I'd known. Why won't they effing well clean their teeth when you want them to? Why is everything a fucking trauma and drama which ends up in a row???

I love my kids to bits but can't wait for the 3 year old twins to grow up and start to leave me alone a bit. The 10 year old is a piece of cake!

You have my utmost sympathy, as long as I can have some back .

YANBU I think anyone who had four kids in 8 years would be driven insane by the demands of parenthood.

I only have one to keep happy and she is a handful, but I am a SAHM and I do enjoy it (most of the time).

After four miscarriages who knows when my next one is coming, but by then I will have a bigger age gap than planned and DD will have started school. Not intentional at all but I am hoping this will be a sanity saver for me .

Don't think I could have coped with a baby/toddler combo and bow down to those who can.

Why did you reduce your hours from 30 to 25 to spend more time with the children if you don't like it though? That's the bit I don't understand.

What about hiring someone to help on Sunday and Saturday mornings - we had a sixth former once for the twins whilst we had the other 3 children. Sometimes it can be easier to take one child out or even spending the morning reading the newspapers and then h aving a lovely afternoon with them . There is no God given law which says unless you are the sole carer from 5am to 10pm on Saturdays the children will die.

YADNBU

I think we've got used to the idea in the west that children are brought up by one stay at home parent. I bet that the majority of children in the world are still brought up in a clan setting with loads of extended family, aunties, cousins etc to help out. Here, we all live in our little rabbit hutches and tned to feel lonely and cut off.

My DC are brilliant little people, but LORD ABOVE why did no one tell me what three year olds were like? I love her to pieces, but please, where is the mute button?

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I've been on holiday for two weeks with the children (4 and nearly 2) and it has been lovely but such hard work. They play nicely for 15 seconds and then they fight. DS loses, cries and tantrums. DD then tantrums because she's not getting enough attention. And they don't go to bed. Ever.

I came home a bit early on Monday and saw them playing with their nanny. No fighting, just lovely calm doing things. I was v.v. jealous.

I've found it helps having a little notebook to write down things we've done which have gone well (i.e. given rise to no fighting for at least 3 minutes) and note things that are on, e.g special days at museums etc. It at least makes me feel like I'm attempting to do a proper job.

I think LuzLuz is correct - it's not really normal to be in sole charge of small children for long periods, without interaction with other families and other adults, whether extended family in your house or neighbours etc. It can certainly make you feel a bit loopy!

Of course everyone has days were they just want to run away. But I'm sure OP that there are times when you look at them and can't believe how lucky you are. Ok maybe its when they are all sleeping at night, but can you really say you don't enjoy any of it?
I wouldn't for a second be thinking either that other people find it effortless. It is easy to think the public image is the true one but everybodies house is the same behind it all. People say to me 'oh I don't know how you do it' when they see dc out. I feel like saying you should have seen me screaming at ds this morning to find his bloody shoes, or running into the shop on the way to school to buy something for the lunches. I make no secret of how glad I am to be going to work for a few days each week or how ecstatic I am to get away for a weekend either.

Pacific I wouldn't dream of trying to offer advice to someone so much wiser and experienced in child-rearing than me. But if it helps, I find the whole thing a bit of a chore a lot of the time too. And I only have one. I mean sure, DD is delightful, fascinating, wonderful, beautiful etc. etc. but looking after her has never been 'effortless', as it seems to be for some people. Some people seem to be able to give themselves over to parenting, 100%, and enjoy every minute of it. I've never felt that, and if I'm honest it makes me feel a bit guilty sometimes.

But there's a saying that goes something like "Never compare your insides with other people's outsides". It could be that most people feel the same way you do, but you only see the facade.

I don't really like small children. DS2 is just about to turn 2, and I realised the other day that he has just started to be fun to play with and interact with - not just gushing over his cuteness and the latest thing he's learned to do, but actually enjoying being with him. Which is why I work full time and DH is a SAHD.

My friend is a nursery nurse, and she really does love babies and small children. I spent quite a lot of time with her when on mat leave with DS2, and it really was a revelation. She actively enjoyed playing with him and chattering away to him.

I also find trying to look after both my boys at once quite hard. Sometimes one is happy to play while I do something with the other, but if they're both demanding attention at once, I get stressed. Can't imagine doing it with four!

I love looking after children both as a career and my own. I think its really enjoyable seeing them grow, all their changes everyday and them learning new things, the funny things they say and their view on the world.

Of course there is stressful moments now and again but there would be with any job but just enjoy it. Tomorrow is another day and if something goes wrong today it will be completely different the next day. Dont stress about little things like you see on here and just trust your instincts and have fun with it. If you choose activities you like that makes it more fun. There is nothing better than showing all the children all the fun things you did as a child and doing them again. Second childhood i the way forward

I will add though the best things I have observed over the years working with children which mean parents are less stressed are bigger gaps between children eg 3 years+ as you have more time to enjoy each one seperatly, also support systems even if you dont know many people or have family around socialable parents that throw themselves in to it seem happy as they meet more people to help them and access more support.

Pacific, I've probably missed you saying the age of your kids but they are probably youngish.

Yes, yabu to envy them. Just accept it. It doesn't matter that you don't particularly enjoy it. It doesn't matter that you want to spend quite a bit of time with them even thought you don't enjoy it.

It gets better. No point feeling regret or envy or whatver.

Azazello, I like your book idea but suspect 1) it would be empty and 2) on the unlikely occasion there was something to put in it there wouldn't BE time to write it in.

Glad to hear other people's 4 and 2 y.o.'s fight lots. I keep thinking FFS, how can you fight about that?

PD thank you for this thread, I don't feel so awful now about getting sooooo frustrated with DS again I only have one so no advice but I keep thinking I am not cut out for motherhood but this thread gives me hope!

Hope it gets better for you PD FWIW my theory is that when you work so hard to obtain a 'profession' and a success in your work life you expect to be good at parenting too and it's hard to feel so out of control/helpless in the face of these little dictators!

Thank you, all. Really .

I feel better today after a full day at work

EightiesChick, oh, you insightful woman! I am very conflicted about the nanny-thing, not because of the reasons you are suspecting, but because I am dreading the conversation with our current CM. Whom I love. And the children love. Apart from that, I am very aware that with her providing child care for 4 children, what we pay her is a huge chunk of her family income. I keep chickening out of the necessary conversation and I do want to give her as much notice as I possibly can.

LuzLuz, I so totally and utterly agree with you: to raise a child takes a village. Sadly, we don't have one (v elderly MIL with strained relationship to DH and my parents/brother live abroad, no aunties/cousins etc). I am so glad that we at least live in a village were my older ones can go to friends' houses on their own, walk to school, go to the local park etc.
Amazingly, if they have friends round to our house, they often behave better. As if they were a bit more 'diluted' . And I thought 4 ruddy children would jolly well be enough!!

Xenia, I was keen to be at home one further afternoon after school, partly because DS2 needs somebody breathing down his neck a bit of help with homework, and partly because there were issues with other children at the CM's. I DO like spending time with them when they are cooperative; not angels, but just not rotten to each other.

MissP, I love the inside/outside thing; v well put. I shall try to remember it. You of course have charming I. and don't know how I suffer

ang, see, this is the beauty of MN: no subject too awkward to air and you'll always find somebody in the same/similar boat .

And to everybody who said IABU: I fully accept your verdict that IABU to be envious. It is a pointless and negative emotion which makes you feel bad and does not change/improve anything. I shall try and desist.

And yes, DSs are/look absolutely angelic when asleep in their beds - I will go and sniff their heads .

I certainly agree that they often do need homework supervision. Some schools have after school homework club. We did a mixture of the two of us when we got back from work and they had a nanny too.

I do think the comment above that there are few cultures on the planet where women have ever looked after their own children alone 24/7 is correct. The romans used slaves. The indians in Africa have African servants. My grandmother went to India in the 1920s to be a children's nanny to an English family. In 1900 and 2011 the UK has/had a lot of people hired to look after the children of others and in big fam ilies like mine with 3 adult children around children end up with lots of extar people to help. The family across the road live with a live in Indian servant and the grandparents.

I think we need to rethink the guilt the sexist press puts on women. Also if you know on holidays (someone above mentioned holidays) that being with small chidlren 24/7 is hard for you then there are other options. We found Sunsail holidays great and our older chldren speak fondly of them even now with a chidlren's club from 9 - 4 and then we lookafter them 6 - 9 and 4 - 10 which is more than enough if you want a holiday yourself. No one gets a gold star for the number of hours at the coal face of dull childcare they did when they die.

Why does it have to be dull? That is the thing that I don't understand. Do you have dull DCs? Are you dull- with no imagination?
When I look back in old age bringing up DCs is the most rewarding thing I did. I certainly won't look back and think that paid employment was the highlight of my life! However interesting the career, I work to live, not live to work.

On the surface I think I look like the kind of mother who loves small children. We do baking and collaging and play in the park and tomorrow we're sewing a fairy dress out of some cheap fabric we chose last week together as a treat.

But. I only have one. I work three days a week. And even then, the days when I don't have some adult company are hard. The difference between a day when I can chat with a friend while we both keep an eye on our offspring, and the day when I'm alone with mine from 7am to 8pm is just staggeringly enormous. It's absolutely right that children are not a task to be taken on alone.

So the culprit here is school holidays, clearly. Once you're back to sharing care with the school, you'll feel much better.

Exoticfruits - I find it dull because I have to talk about dinosaurs all day. Every day. F**ing dinosaurs are doing my head in!!

My dinosaur discussions are broken up with "Get OFF him!!" and "PUT THAT DOWN!" and "It's not YOURS it's to be SHARED!!" etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

We also also discuss "Why" A LOT. and "What you doin?" and "What time is it?" (Every 30 seconds or so)
Conversation round here is rather limited and therefore dull.

I envy people who find this kind of banter entertaining, but I don't want to sit next to them at a dinnerparty.

I realise that Bubbaluv. I just get fed up with Xenia and her tread mill of high paid job- pay school fees- good results-DCs good jobs- so they can pay school fees........ and just wonder when one of them might say-'there must be more to life' and jack it all in to paint in Cornwall, start a landscape garden business, go on the stage etc etc
We are all different-Xenia seems to think we should all be the same and doesn't seem to want anyone intelligent looking after her DCs until they are 5yrs as she looks down on anyone who considers it as a career-whereas I think that her grandmother who went to India in 1920's to be a nanny was probably the most exciting person in her family.