To have just got them out in front of BIL anyway?

[dolldaggabuzzbuzz]

DH, DS and I have just returned from a lovely holiday staying with DH's brother, SIL and their DC's.

Everyone knows I still bf DS at 2.6 so now I mostly only do it at home.

One evening we were in a restaurant after a lovely day out and DS was really cranky and tired pulling my top. I said no but I felt cruel because we had made him tired with all the days out.

I said to BIL that if he gets his milk now he will magically settle down and behave beautifully. He gave me a look as if to say "don't you dare" -so I didn't. And DS would not settle down.

Eventually my DH got sick of DS and grabbed him and marched him outside in the rain and gave him a good shouting to and kept him out for 10 minutes. When he returned (wet) DS was very subdued, he had been sobbing and scared. He was quiet but sad for the rest of the evening.

DH and I were discussing this yesterday and he said he was surprised at me that I had allowed his DB's problem to become my problem but I just didn't want it to ruin the holiday as we were staying at his house.

I am annoyed with myself for allowing him to make me feel so uncomfortable with my parenting. I feel the right thing to do would have been to give DS his milk there in the restaurant. AIBU?

I think it's a shame the op felt uncomfortable for feeding Ds at the table. I was in a similar situation with a friend - they actually said yuk when I fed DD age 21 mths in our holiday home.

I think DH should have been supportive & maybe op should, knowing Bil's reaction, fed Ds discreetly (toilet/car/lobby)

Im sure nobody will make you explain WHY you are uncomfortable with it though Gwendoline- its only those who feel uncomfortable with bigger children being bf who need to explain exactly why.

As a matter of interest, when doyou al thinkit is "too old" to still be B/F?

Its like someone saying though 'my DS has a paddy and gets cranky unless I give him some crisps/chocolate/coke to comfort him' imho. He is two and a half, getting to that frustrated age when he cant have what he wants all the time and that will happen whether its about breastmilk or anything else he decides he wants and cant have at that time. As an adult just say no!

Bimbo - the OP said that they had made her DS tired and cranky with all the days out. That sort of situation is exactly when I would eg give a 2yo the crisps they wanted, or let them eat with their fingers, or whatever other slightly unreasonable demand. Because if you are requiring them to keep to the schedules and activities of other people, you need to cut them some slack if you want to maintain a harmonious atmosphere.

I must be mean then lol

as long as you're consistently mean...

even though I am not very comfy with BF of toddlers I would never stop someone from doing it

My, how gracious of you. So many people out there magnanimously tolerating the natural feeding of children. You deserve medals.

FWIW, I am not very comfy with dummies or bottle-feeding, but would never stop someone else from doing it. I'm that liberal, you see.

LOL for my kids sadly yes!

I think too old is when the dc don't want it. DD 2 would pull at my top, but be quite happy with a biscuit, apart from at bedtime. Then about 2.4 yrs, she wasn't bothered & Bf was over.

I don't think it's a descision between anyone else other than the mother & Dc. Certainly not family/friends/complete strangers.

All this stuff about "the bigger" story is just rubbish - perhaps op wasn't greatly worded, big deal.

Op, well done for feeding Ds for so long & hopefully you'll be better equipped if this situation occurs again.

My thoughts are if you choose to EBF you choose to face the 'controversy' that may follow,it was very unreasonable of you to simply deny ds and expect Dh to deal with it (in a very cack handed way).

You were in a foreign country, you were taking your cues as to what is and isn't acceptable to do in public in that country from your BIL. You were also his guest and I think it would of been extremely rude to purposefully make your host uncomfortable, in public, in what is probably a restaurant they frequent and are known in.

I think where it all went wrong is that you didn't have a discussion with your BIL in private and figure out whether your BIL was uncomfortable due to his personal opinion, or because of the local culture/norms, etc. And tell him while you do not wish to cause offense, this is what you were planning to do, and how would be the best way to go about doing it, etc.

This thread has made me very sad.

I don't want this to be seen as argumentative, but can I ask in a reasonable way what it is that people object to about the BFing of an older child?

I am curious about what age people would perceive public breast feeding as being controversial?

Are the people who are offended by extended or public BFing equally offended when they see mothers Bfing in countries where it is more culturally 'normal' to feed publicly or to feed toddlers, perhaps on TV etc?

Is the objection to do with cultural norms in our society? In some areas/ circles it is very unusual to BF at all, or at least beyond a few weeks. In those 'mini' social groups it could be argued that BFing for, say, 3 months would be seen as excessive and distasteful. Should BFing mothers in those circles 'hide' Bfing after their child reaches the average age of BFing cessation for that community, for risk of causing offense?

If not, where does the cut off lie, and by what criteria is it decided. Given WHO recommendations of BFing for at least 2 years, would this be seen as socially acceptable? The world average age for cessation of BFing is put at somewhere between 3 and 7. It is a peculiarity of our specific society that has created the taboo that surrounds BFing beyond infanthood.

I feel sad because I am in no way an exhibitionist, and my decision to BF my children until they see fit to stop has never been intended as some kind of statement. I have no interest in causing offense to others, but as far as I am concerned I am doing something which is not shameful or offensive, nor is it any way comparable to 'private' acts like going to the toilet or having sex.

Bfing in public is NOT intended as a confrontational act, and the perception of it as such, or as an exhibitionist statement, or as a sexualised act, is discouraging mothers who would otherwise choose to BF their children from doing so.

"I don't want this to be seen as argumentative, but can I ask in a reasonable way what it is that people object to about the BFing of an older child?"

NOw, I have no issue with it really, here is my main question. typically at a certain age (ie 2) they dont have milk that often, generally a bottle in the morning wth breakfast and a bottle at bedtime. This what I see with most 2 year olds. So I am curious about the need for feeds when out and about , and in public? do they NEED milk really, or is it a comfort thing? as if its the latter thats why people might be a bit weird

I get that small babies need milk ALL THE TIME but in general toddlers dont, hence why I get curious as to why they need milk (ie boobie), would not water/snack/juice suffice????

would not an EBF mum really only nned to find once/twice a day anyway? ergo, shed be at home anyway

and as for toddlers needing night feeds. they dont!!!!!

I agree with what porcamiseria said.

I don't understand why children who are presumably on a comprehensive diet of solids by the age of the OP's child still need breast feeding to the extent that it interferes with everyday life. I weaned DS off the breast at 14 months when I needed medicine that wasn't compatible with breast feeding but even by that stage he was only having an early morning and late evening feed - all his other nutritional needs were satisfied in other ways, and comfort was by cuddles and so on.

I agree that toddler bfing or nursing is not necessarily about calorie intake or hunger.

Often, toddler nursing is about comfort, but I still don't get why that makes people feel uncomfortable.

Wouldn't we all do what we could to make our toddlers feel safe and comforted? For BF toddlers, BFing brings this comfort.

As it happens, none of my children had dummies, and so would not have associated a dummy with comfort. That doesn't mean I find it weird that other children do gain comfort from this. It is about association I suppose; whatever individual children associate with comfort.

Thankyou Porcamiseria, for your reasonable reply

Sorry, X-post TeamDamon. I don't think about EBF as 'interfering' with every day life, anymore than I think lunch interferes with my everyday life! It is just a part of life.

I think all children are different, as your experience shows. My children have self-weaned, DS1 at 3, DS 2 at 3 1/2, at which point they obviously felt entirely ready. I know that if I were to stop dd (4) bfing at this point, she would be very upset. She is obviously still gaining something from nursing, and this is valuable even if the need that is satisfied is not necessarily nutritional.

(as it happens, BFing is shown to have nutritional and immune system benefits until a child is at least 6!)

I understand that all mothers may not feel that it is what they want to do, but not why it elicits such strong feelings of distaste, which I have to say neither of you have expressed

I think you hit nail on head carey

I have really changed my views about EBF since coming on MN and if a Mum wanted to give her toddlers breast milk for b-fast and bed time, well fair play to her

its the mid afternoon/mid strop.mid playground comfort thing that I feel a bit uncomfortable about. I know how tough the EBF possse are and I hardly dare type this! But I suppose I think that the boob for a toddler should not be a comfort tool, sorry, but thats the way I feel. Toddlers get taught alot of things as they develop, dont bite, no you cant have chocolate buttons. and mid playground/cafe I think they could be tight to self soothe in another way?

everyone says "breasts are for feeding" but not "breasts are for comforting a tired and upset toddler"

I haven't read the whole thread (sorry) so I'm not sure if someone has already said this, but if you were in Scotland, your BIL's attitude could land him with a hefty on the spot police fine!

porcamiseria, We're only tough because we've had to be .

Do you think that the reason we feel uncomfortable in our society with the idea of a toddler gaining comfort from a breast is to do with the sexualisation of Women's bodies?

I think most women who EBF DO think 'breasts are for comforting a tired and upset toddler'. That is certainly the primary function of mine right now!

That is BRILLIANT about Scotland!

well at least we discussed without swearing, shouting, arguing...quite a feat !!!!!!

I think it must be a MN first!

pchip give over...that's pompous nonsense you're spouting. Op is the guest & BIL should have bent over backwards to make sure all ok for her & nephew, not made her feel uncomfortable.

You're going to have to explain to me why your BIL gets to have any say whatsoever over something completely legal that you choose to do.