To be quite pleased that my dc are a little bit scared of me.

[psiloveyou]

DS (11) was looking at a picture in the paper this morning. It was of a mum taking her young son into court to face charges after rioting.
Ds said "if I ever did anything like that mum, I would be much more scared of what you would do. You're much scarier than any policeman or court". I was actually quite pleased that he felt like that.

When I told a friend though she was horrified. She said she would be devastated if her dc were scared of her in any way. She said I was living in the dark ages if I feel like that and adults should earn the respect of children without scaring them.

Now don't get me wrong, DS and I have a brilliant relationship. I never hit (and rarely have to shout at) the dc. I do think though that a little fear is healthy and I would like my dc to feel that way about any authority figure such as teachers the police ect.

So am I living in the dark ages.

Oh, and fwiw I agree that human rights discourse (and some of its legislation) is flawed. My Ph.D was on precisely this.)

i have good relationship with my dc and 2 of them are teens and they are good lads

and they quite openly admit that they be scared of me if i ever found out they was involved with anything like that

Thruaglassdarkly exactly. I couldn't do your job for anything.

slanted myself and others have tried (and failed) to allow you to see how the words 'scared' and 'fear' can be used in different contexts.
'I fear that I could upset you'
'I am scared of upsetting you'
(in other words- 'it would make me feel bad to upset you because of my behaviour and know I would get into trouble'
Very different to:
'I fear you'
'I am scared of you'

You seem determined to hang onto the latter.
People have said over and over that this is not what they mean.

joric- I get what people mean. I am saying that I don't want kids to fear consequences. I think if you re-read my posts you will see that I am concerned with fear. Other people have gone on about the difference between fear of people and fear of upsetting them. In a rather patronising way. But I make no distinction - to me, it's all wrong.

You seem determined to misunderstand me.

but thanks for trying to "allow" me to understand. Really kind of you.

Izzy - sadly, there are a number of people who have never experienced or been taught the 'human respect' ideology - due to circumstance, addiction, abusive upbringing.
We owe it to our children to teach them to respect everything and to fear the consequences when they don't.

My pleasure

(slanted)

Im not going to read the whole thread because I suspect there may be/have been a fight which I would prefer not to see.

About a year ago my ds (15) called me one night to fetch him early from a friend. When we arrived it was chaos as some of the boys had been drinking and were very ill!

When we got him home I told him I was so proud of him for not being involved and for calling me. His answer was "I told them no way, my mother will castrate me with a spoon". I laughed and he said "Really, you very scary when you get cross Mom". He has never been hit in his life but apparently its my face :)

i would never of even dreamt of doing things some kids do today. both my mum and my dad would have given me a wack no matter what age and my mum still would!
i want my child to respect me without being frightened making the lsightest mistake, but he should know if i ever caught him looting or such like i would give him a good wack and take him down the police station myself.

*Izzy-I suspect that you've fallen victim to woolly minded thinking Slanted and, now that you have found yourself in the maze of semantics, have lost sight of the fact that 'fear' can be a positive force for good and that being afraid of consequences has saved countless lives.'
I couldn't say it better than this! :)

Izzy-I suspect that you've fallen victim to woolly minded thinking Slanted and, now that you have found yourself in the maze of semantics, have lost sight of the fact that 'fear' can be a positive force for good and that being afraid of consequences has saved countless lives.'
I couldn't say it better than this!

You clearly couldn't, joric, since you've been struggling to make sense all the way through.

So far there's a huge lack of argument, though- just bold proclamations in favour of instilling fear.

I would hope that mine would be far more worried about family reaction than anything outside it. It is not fear of physical violence, I don't believe in it, but there are certain values that they do not break.

mila Usually with a glare, or stand their watching them until they know I won't go away so they do. When the actually touch my property I call 101 and get PCSO out, not that it does much other than them getting another warning .

I did once yell go over to a lad who was trying to chase and hurt my DS and warn him 'if he ever touched my DS it would be the last thing he ever did'

Keep calling the police, eventually they get fed up with responding and actually do something. Ours have set up Streetwatch in our street. Its like neighbourhood watch but people actually volunteer to patrol, report issues, send out newsletters and act as a voice for the residents. It did get better until the school holidays.

I am going to speak to someone from there as missed the meeting and make my point!!

Yes I have told my 6yo DS I would always stand by him but if he broke the law I would take him to the police station myself. I said I understand getting in trouble is scary but he needs to face those fears and the consequences for his actions.

Mindyou he also then asked me if 'jail' was like a naughty step for adults. Yes DS I said, but one where you may be there for 15 years not 6 minutes.

YABU. I would not want my DD to fear me, nor am I about to instill fear for me in her. My dad used this approach, quite effectively, and to this day I resent him for it. You don't have to teach your children to fear you in order to gain their respect.

I was still quite scared of my Mother when I was 39... there is absolutely nothing at fault with having a healthy fear of your parents' wrath if you do something that you know is wrong. It is, in my view, where society has gone wrong over the last 20 or so years, with parents who are trying to be best friends with their kids. You are NOT their friend, you are their parent... you are there to guide them, morally educate them, and help them grow up into decent human beings.

slanted I still haven't seen you answer the question that so many of us have asked, DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE CHILDREN!! ie: do you speak with any real experience, or just woolly minded theory ?

Afraid can mean scared
it can mean regretful
it has various meanings

this is what I said earlier about use of language

I'm afraid I seem to have hurt Bobs feelings
is a completely different afraid to I'm afraid of Fred for example

Slanted :o @ I've been struggling to explain my thoughts!! Not at all. I disagree with you that's all. Other people seem to grasp my side of this debate fine and you seem irritated by it.

squeaky my parents were strict and I was scared of the consequences of my actions if I chose to do wrong.
I thank them for it as they taught me a lot! :)

rockinhippy - yes, I have a child. Woolly minded theory? What's that, then?

And care to explain your earlier, "woolly" accusations?

I am irritated at being misunderstood and misinterpreted. People are accusing me of saying things I simply haven't said.

And not one of you can back up your position with anything even approaching evidence.

But carry on - as you were.

I think there are a number of ways a person can read the OP-

The first being that it's ok to scare the living daylights out of a child with threats of violence or deprivation in order to discipline them or

The second being to instil a respect for people, society and the home by imposing sanctions/ consequences of which the DC fear will come their way if they choose to behave badly.

I believe in the second.

Yes, joric, the problem for me is that teaching by fear is wrong. For a start, (a shallow one, but maybe one that will appeal to you), when the fear is gone so, therefore, is the motivation.