To be quite pleased that my dc are a little bit scared of me.

[psiloveyou]

DS (11) was looking at a picture in the paper this morning. It was of a mum taking her young son into court to face charges after rioting.
Ds said "if I ever did anything like that mum, I would be much more scared of what you would do. You're much scarier than any policeman or court". I was actually quite pleased that he felt like that.

When I told a friend though she was horrified. She said she would be devastated if her dc were scared of her in any way. She said I was living in the dark ages if I feel like that and adults should earn the respect of children without scaring them.

Now don't get me wrong, DS and I have a brilliant relationship. I never hit (and rarely have to shout at) the dc. I do think though that a little fear is healthy and I would like my dc to feel that way about any authority figure such as teachers the police ect.

So am I living in the dark ages.

Slanted - yes I would!! Her wrath isn't always worth it
I disagree with her about children - she has always said if I am pregnant and not married, she will not support me - I disagree with her and I don't know if she would change her mind or not. I want a facial piercing but she would go ballistic, so I haven't done it

But the "fear" of getting a ticket is totally different to a child being scared of its parents, even if it's only of their disapproval.

I'm not scared of getting a ticket; I just would rather not have one. No fear whatsoever involved in that.

The thing about your message, slanted, is that's it's all very well on paper. But in practice, many people cock it up and only deliver half of it, leading to badly behaved kids (see my f*ing bitch example above) who don't have respect for their parents or anyone else either.

brighthair - really? The only reason you haven't got your face pierced is because your mother would get angry?

You see, as a mother, I would hate for that to be the reason behind my child's decisions.

(And my wrath is pretty awful, so I'm going to have to watch it! :) )

I don't understand what you're saying, Clam.

That since it's easy to only be half-hearted about not scaring kids which should just understand that it's OK to frighten them?

I very much doubt that I am a perfect parent, and I am certain that I make many many mistakes -some which keep me awake at night.

But I still think that it's important to try to teach respect without fear and threats.

Slanted - yup seriously she would not speak to me for months if I had it done. I had a second set of holes done in my ears when I was 17 and she went mental. Don't get me wrong, she is v supportive, and despite initially getting angry is usually approachable and helps if I have an issue

And the problem with fear of consequences as a motivator is that once they're not scared, the motivation to behave well has gone. (Obviously, there are a million more problems with this idea, but since people seem to be so concerned about consequences, it should be obvious that if fear is what's stopping your child from obeying, then once they get over their fear they have no reason to obey.)

Why Slanted? I don't think i've been unfair.

I rollock my kids when they have knowingly/intentionally done wrong. Never ever if there's a mistake or accident. And they get praise/rewarded when they do good things.

I tell them I love them no matter what, even if I am angry/upset with them. I give them power to make their own decisions and responsibility to go with it.

So far my 15yr old DD hasn't felt the need to rebel at all and is almost the model teenager and all my kids love me unconditionally, as I love them.

I'm not advocating anyone being a tyrant alone. That is useless and you'd be a terrible parent if you were. But as someone above said, it's all a quiver in the proverbial bow.

The principle I try to parent by is punish the bad (hard) and praise the good (a lot). Oh and never punish accidents because by their very definition they are accidents.

birghthair - but why don't you want to upset her? Is it because you fear her? Or is it because you don't feel she deserves to be upset? (Over something like this?)

If the latter, then surely that's because you respect her already? So respect is prior to fear?

If this were over something bigger - say, someone you wanted to marry - would you give in because you are scared?

Really not trying to stir, here - just genuinely interested!

I worked for a Head Teacher a few years back, who advocated that earning the children's respect was the way forward and rarely if ever actually told anyone off except staff. It was all about positive reinforcement and sanctions/consequences (God forbid anyone use the word punishment) which sounded great. Except the behaviour in the school nose-dived and became quite simply appalling - the worst seen in the 15 years I'd worked there. If a child was told by a teacher to go to the Head, they'd be met with a visible shrug as if to say "And?" He was perceived as a bit of an old duffer, who would deal with any bad behaviour with a sad shake of his head and a "you've let me down" and send them on their way. Yes they probably liked him, but they didn't respect him.

That Head left and a new one arrived. Lots of fun - kids adored her, but she had a core of steel and they knew she was not to be messed with. Yes, they wanted to please her, but they were also more than a little wary of getting in her bad books. Behaviour in school: dramatically improved.

niceguy - it's the tit for tat attitude I don't like - they should earn your respect because you changed their nappies, etc.

They hardly had much choice in that, did they?

Scared of upsetting her and a bit of her reaction plus I don't want to fall out with her so a bit of everything really

clam - yeah, and I know someone who did the opposite of that and got better results.

Also, clam, not wanting to scare children into obedience doesn't necessarily lead to the methods you describe.

Slanted- I think we should all, myself included, be afraid of what will happen if we choose to do the wrong thing over what is right.
Yes, when this fear (of consequences) has gone or is not there in the first place - all hell breaks loose.

Exactly, joric, and I think we've all seen the consequences of that on our TV screens this week. Or, worse, on our streets.

joric, are you kidding? All hell breaks loose if we're not frightened of consequences?

Have I stumbled onto the Daily Mail?

Does no one believe it's possible to behave just because we like other people and believe that respect is important? Or are we all, secretly, rabid nutters out to get everything we can and hurt whomever, and the only reason we don't is because we're scared of the consequences?

Clam- happens all of the time... It's the hidden 'core of steel' that needs to be there... It is possible to be relaxed, kind, empathetic, encouraging at the same time IMO. I bet the head you are talking about had this 'hidden core of steel' too slanted You probably never saw it though.

clam, how do you know how the kids on the streets this week were parented? I live in an area that was hit by the riots, and I can tell you that these kids were regularly shouted at and slapped by their parents.

They didn't care about any consequences, because they didn't believe there would be any.

That's the problem with focussing on fear and consequences.

Scared of you? Bloody hell I'd hate my kids to be scared of me.

I wasn't scared of my parents. Ever.

I was worried about upsetting or disappointing them of course. I think (hope) that is how my children feel, but scared? No.

Slanted. It's not like I stand there everyday saying "You must do x because I changed your nappy"

But there's nothing wrong with reminding your children now and again that actually you DO do a lot for them. That you do those things because you love them.

The police keep us safe (by & large). No I dont expect everytime I see a policeman for him to remind me. But by god I should give him the respect he/she deserves and yes, I should be scared of the consequences of crossing the line.

It's no different for kids. Part of our job is to police their behaviour.

Sure, if shouting and slapping is done in isolation without the rest of the package (not advocating the salpping mind you).

"Police their behaviour"? Part of your "job"?

fjads;gjvoiaspnbwebnvoawpuebipaebr

I have to agree with niceguy. Adults should not have to earn the respect of children. It sould be given simply because of the adult/child relationship. Obviously there are some adults who don't deserve respect in that I would not expect my dc to look up to them and aspire to be like them. I would still expect my dc to show said adults a certain amount of respect in that they would treat them politely.
I had an interesting conversation with my adult dd recently. I left her father when she was a few months old. He has a very different parenting style to me. He will shout and hit, he takes drugs frequently but recently threw his son out when he found out he was dealing. DD said when she was younger and did something wrong her dad would shout (in an extreme way) and she would think "oh shut up". She said "you never shouted mum, you just looked at me and that look made me feel so bad. You looked so disapointed with me".
brighthair I get where you are coming from. DD smokes but she knows I hate it so she would never ever smoke in front of me. It's the same with swearing I know she does but never in front of me. I respect her for respecting my feelings even though she is an adult now.

Is hurting someone not a consequence then?