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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU regarding Welsh?

216 replies

Jelly15 · 04/08/2011 18:11

DH and I been married for 18 years. He was brought up to speak Welsh as his first language. I was brought up in the same town to non Welsh speaking parents. DSs are billingual but, despite having lessons several times, I have not been able to get a grasp on Welsh.

The problem I have is when DHs family visit and are not talking directly to me they speak in Welsh. DH and DSs answer them in English and translate for me. I have kept my mouth shut for years and understand it if I am in their houses but this is my home and I am about to tell the rude baskets what I think. AIBU?

OP posts:
AlpinePony · 05/08/2011 08:57

Lampeter university used to run an immersion course in the summer, I'm sure they still do.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 05/08/2011 09:48

I wonder why the OP is being told to go and learn a language in order to fit in but it's too much to ask the in laws to speak in a language that they already have?

I think the OP should look at some other ways of learning the language but at this moment in time, what the in laws are doing is pretty ignorant.

exoticfruits · 05/08/2011 09:57

If I was living in Wales I really wouldn't want to learn it-I would far rather go to college and learn German or Spanish.

belgo · 05/08/2011 09:59

GML - so many britons worldwide use that excuse not to learn a language. Why should we bother when everyone else speaks english?

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 05/08/2011 10:03

Exotic my kids are fluent in welsh and are learning German and French in school so at least the skill of being bilingual is being used to learn several languages.

AlpinePony · 05/08/2011 10:07

OP said "DH and I been married for 18 years. I was brought up in the same town".

So it's not as if she moved from Sunderland to Tregaron and is an outsider - she's local ! It's just stunning that she's not been able to absorb any of the local language by fucking osmosis!

I went to university in Wales and didn't find it rude that Welsh speakers spoke Welsh to each other.

Mrsxstitch · 05/08/2011 10:23

To me the biggest point is that if the in-laws wanted her to learn Welsh they would have supported her attempts to learn instead of ridiculing her. To me it is symptomatic of rudeness and ignorant attitude towards her. Perhaps if they switched between the 2 languages by dropping in the odd Welsh phrase then gradually use Welsh more then it would help her learn rather than speaking at whatever their normal speed is exclusively in Welsh. It would be inclusive and supportive.

gorionine · 05/08/2011 10:23

"I went to university in Wales and didn't find it rude that Welsh speakers spoke Welsh to each other."

That is very different though to family visiting you and being able to speak your language while you cannot speak theirs.

My mother tongue is French, Dh is North African and can speak both French and Arabic so can all his family members. In spite of all my efforts I cannot, after 15 years, get a grip of the arabic language. There are full sentences that I can understand but I cannot generally follow a full conversation. Whenever we have family gathering, my inlaws make sure they balance the "full Arabic version" and the French one (I would not ask for permanent French as
a) DH does not have that many occasions to speak his own language
b) I enjoy listening to them
c) I hope my Dcs will that way be more immersed in it and learn better than I did.

I never felt excluded if I did i would just stop bothering going there and seeing them because it would be a very unequal relation with the one being able to solve the problem just refusing to do so and watching someone"sink" but not helping. Unhealthy IMHO (unless we were genuinly not able to converse in a common language in which case I would continue the effort as DH would be translating both ways so we could have chance to know each other better even without being able to talk"straight" IYSWIM)

IN OP's case, she is effectively isolated of converstations between the adults. I dread to think how she feels when the Dcs are not there to translate or if the converstaion is about topics not destined to be translated by children. She is cut off her DH's family life and it is very verySad

ilovepizza · 05/08/2011 10:24

How is your relationship with them in general?

I'm Welsh and can understand conversational Welsh fairly fluently, but I'm not a great speaker of it.

In my opinion there may be two reasons for them to do this:

a: They don't realise they are doing it and it is just 'natural' for them to speak Welsh between themselves. I think this is the most likely explanation if you get on well with them generally. Perhaps they regard you as part of the family so much, they forget you don't understand.

b: They don't like you, or regard you as 'English' because you are a non- Welsh speaker and will be deliberately doing it to exclude you/ embarass you. I'd say the type of people who do this are in the minority in Wales but I've come across a fair few of them in the past and they do exist.

belgo · 05/08/2011 10:28

I wonder if 20 years ago the family were a lot more supportive to the OP then they are now? Maybe they have just given up trying to support her learning welsh?

pointydog · 05/08/2011 10:29

Why are you focusing on them speaking welsh? That sound slike the least of your worries.

You should be telling them not to be such narrow-minded arseholes about the english. Constantly.

ilovejondanby · 05/08/2011 12:37

I think there are underlying issues here. One thing though - is it not hubby's home too? Hubby was brought up with Welsh as his first language, therefore surely op's family speaking in English in the home is rude? The excuse everyone speaks English isn't valid because the family talk English to the op, her children translate into English so she isn't left out - does anyone translate into Welsh for the hubby? In all honesty, if this was a major problem from the start why didn't op say something then? And why raise your children to be bilingual with the chance that they may use Welsh on a daily basis? I think there may be other issues with the in-laws. It bugs me that people think it is rude to use Welsh in Wales around non-Welsh speakers, everyone is entitled to use the language they feel most comfortable in :)

CurrySpice · 05/08/2011 12:59

Of course it is not rude to speak Welsh in Wales per se jondanby. Nobody has said that

It is rude to speak a language anywhere that you know purposely excludes one person there when there is a common language that you can all use.

But it's the age old story isn't it? Llack of communication. If you all talk about it with good humour and openly, then it's not a problem. I refer back to my situation. Everyone tries to speak English so I'm included. If they switch language they will say "Sorry - I don't know how to say this in English, do you mind?" and we will all smile and I'll say "No problem of course!" and DP will translate for me for a while and everybody is happy. Then they will switch back to English. I will try and say a few words in their language, everybody is delighted. Everything goes smoothly.

But to have this festering away as a probem with nobody mentioning it for 18 years has turned what could be perfectly natural, into an ishoo

JemimaMuddledUp · 05/08/2011 13:09

YAB a bit U.

It is incredibly difficult to speak to people in a different language to the one that you normally speak to them in. If you have brought a child up speaking nothing but Welsh it is incredibly difficult to switch to speaking English to them instead, you just do it automatically.

I am a fluent Welsh speaker and so are DH and the DC. My dad was, but my mum is English. My MIL and FIL are first language Welsh. My mum doesn't find it rude if I speak to someone else in the same room in Welsh, she thinks it is completely normal! TBH after 35 years of living in a Welsh speaking part of Wales she understands a lot anyway, she just wouldn't be confident enough to reply in Welsh.

I am suprised that you don't understand much of what is being said in Welsh if you are surrounded by so much Welsh? How do you manage with your DC's homework etc when they need help, or does your DH deal with that?

ilovejondanby · 05/08/2011 13:13

Surely the Op must have some grasp of welsh? She is Welsh and grew up in Wales and her children are bilingual! She isn't being excluded if people are translating for her. Those that are fluent in Welsh tend to think in Welsh and may find it easier to converse that way. Maybe they don't have a complete grasp of English similar to how the Op can't learn Welsh? I have to admit I do think its rude that people think that welsh speakers should only speak english if non welsh speakers are around - why? I also think its rude to deliberately exclude someone - but shouldn't it have been mentioned when op first got together with hubby?

I agree tho, it is a lack of communication that has festered into a major ishoo - think there's more to it tbh :)

ZZZenAgain · 05/08/2011 13:14

she says not so I believe her, why would she lie about it?

notso · 05/08/2011 13:21

I can totally understand OP for not saying something sooner. I was have put up with stuff for 13 years from PIL because Iwas very young when we got together and certainly went along with things i wasn't happy with to fit in.

I have lived in Wales for 21 years did very basic welsh at school until 14 and have learned a little more for work, am married to a Welsh man but it is only in the past four years I have met anyone who speaks fluent Welsh.

We now know lots of people who do speak it and most are happy to include us in their conversations by speaking English and translating for us when we are in a predominantly welsh speaking group, though we don't expect it and totally understand it is not natural for them to do this.

I have also met a minority of people who are very rude when they realise we don't speak it, and I have been berated twice for not sending my DC to welsh speaking schools.
Only this week at the Eisteddfod my DC were dicriminated against for not speaking Welsh fluently.

CurrySpice · 05/08/2011 13:22

I just spotted the way I spelled Llack :o

Well I am quarter Welsh Wink

JemimaMuddledUp · 05/08/2011 13:25

How were your DC discriminated against at the Eisteddfod notso? That is usually the most accepting place for learners, especially when it is in a less predominantly Welsh speaking area as it this year. I remember last year I had to fend off dozens of over zealous people who wanted to help me and my DC learn Welsh.

ilovejondanby · 05/08/2011 13:28

By the same accounts people have been discriminated against for speaking welsh - it wasn't sooo long ago that welsh was actually banned from schools! I must point out I absolutely disapprove of discrimation of any kind and am sorry to hear that it happened to your children! I get the other way lol - people tend to go off on one because i send my children to a welsh medium school - i don't live in a very strong welsh speaking area lol and people can't understand why i didn't send my kids to the english medium school. The op has known people who speak fluent welsh tho - for a long time and hasn't said anything :)

Mrsxstitch · 05/08/2011 13:34

Discrimination against Welsh speakers does not excuse them discriminating against others. In fact discrimination against any group does not excuse that group discriminating against others.

notso · 05/08/2011 13:34

They wanted to do an activity, were asked "Siarad Cymraeg?"(SP) DD said "not really we only do a little bit at school"
the organiser said "sorry we are finished for today"
Two minutes later two other children turned up, they did siarad cymraeg and the organiser magically found some more equipment for them to use and spent the next twenty mins with them.

AKMD · 05/08/2011 13:36

OP I think your ILs are being incredbly rude, especially with the attitude you've explained in your last few posts. Have you asked your DH why he allows them to be so rude to you? He shouldn't be comfortable with this. Perhaps he could make it a point to always ask his family to speak in English while in your home and if they start speaking Welsh, to reply to them in English every single time.

I've lived in various countries and speak several different languages but really appreciated it when I was learning when people spoke in English to include me. It is a commonly accepted courtesy and YANBU to expect it in your own home.

notso · 05/08/2011 13:39

Posted too soon,
It was sad because everyone else was lovely.
DD was performing there, in Welsh.
I totally understand why Welsh speakers are so proud of the language and want to promote it and want others to learn it but discrimination against young children is hardly the way to go about it.

JemimaMuddledUp · 05/08/2011 13:40

That is awful!

What organisation was running the stall? They really shouldn't have done that, and if I were you I would contact the organisation.

IME especially with children the Eisteddfod is really into getting learners to speak more Welsh. Last year my DC had their faces painted at the MYM stall and the volunteer parents were obviously learners, which was great as it gave them an opportunity to speak Welsh in a natural environment and gain confidence. And I don't know how many hours of Martyn Geraint trying to teach basic Welsh phrases in between songs I have sat through with the DC at Eisteddfodau (but I do know that I will never get those hours back!)

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