AIBU regarding Welsh?

[Jelly15]

DH and I been married for 18 years. He was brought up to speak Welsh as his first language. I was brought up in the same town to non Welsh speaking parents. DSs are billingual but, despite having lessons several times, I have not been able to get a grasp on Welsh.

The problem I have is when DHs family visit and are not talking directly to me they speak in Welsh. DH and DSs answer them in English and translate for me. I have kept my mouth shut for years and understand it if I am in their houses but this is my home and I am about to tell the rude baskets what I think. AIBU?

I hesitate on this one. In my family we may be speaking in 3 different languages and 2 additional dialects at any one meet-up. Someone is always excluded from the conversation but this isn´t intentional and I think the OPs inlaws intentions are the the crux of the matter here. Do they deliberately want to exclude the OP, or not?

A lot of people don´t realise the emotive aspect of a language. I never speak to my dh in his language and can´t imagine a day when our dc will use it with me either, even if we are in a group of people who are speaking this language and won´t understand mine. It just feels wrong and unnatural and is impossible to do though I can speak the language with other people. I can imagine this is how the OPs parents-in-law are within their family group, even in another persons house. Just because they can speak English doesn´t make it easy for them to speak English with their son.

Chipotle, I think it´s incredibly sad that you are happy to cut off your own son from half of his family and your dh would be a wise man if he ensured his family made sure your little one learns Welsh. ime your ds will only feel resentful towards you in the future; he has the opportunity now to connect with another language and culture with little effort. This will bring numerous benefits: cognitive, linguistically and even in terms of health. (Recent research even suggests bilingualism gives protection against senile dementia!) Don´t presume everyone will switch to English on behalf of your son - this just may not happen! He will be speaking better Welsh than you before he even starts school with enough contact with his paternal gps.

Sorry, but I think YABU. They need to keep speaking Welsh so your DSs don't stop learning or using it.

I know people say how lovely it is to be bilingual (and it is). But very few bilinguals have exactly the same abilities in both languages. And it is very stressful to keep translating, especially if you are thinking on one language but having to talk in the other.

It's very depressing to see some people trot out the age-old and incredibly arrogant argument that Welsh people only speak Welsh to annoy the English...

Cory makes her point very well. Welsh is a living and breathing language, people use it as their first and even their only language. It's what they think in. If they're used to speaking it to certain family members it's a tough habit to break.

OP, if you've made several attempts to speak Welsh then they probably assume you still want to learn and can even understand a bit. So they probably think speaking Welsh is perfectly ok. Especially as they've been doing it for 18 years without anyone bringing it up!!

Your kids will really benefit from being around Welsh in the home too, it won't just be a 'school' language, they'll be properly bilingual.

Very rude of them IMO

When I was a child (in England BTW and nowhere near the Welsh border) a Welsh family came to live near us. They all could speak perfectly good English, in fact I am not sure the children knew any Welsh, but the parents were Welsh speakers. On a few occasions I was invited to birthday parties at their house and I found that when the parents spoke to each other they always did so in Welsh, despite the fact that they had a houseful of guests who couldn't understand a word.

Maybe they thought children wouldn't notice, but I was 10 or 11 at the time and it always came across as really bad manners. They would switch to English when they wanted to address a remark to any of the children, including their own. I always imagined that they might be talking about us and saying things that they didn't want us to hear. Maybe they weren't but, even at that age, it made me feel a bit and reluctant to go to their house again.

Doesn't matter what the language is. If everyone in the room can speak language A but choose to speak language B to the exclusion of one of the party then that's bloody rude.

5foot5 - why ON EARTH would you assume they were talking about you??? It's probably just the case that the parents had always spoken welsh to each other and therefore it came naturally to them to do that. I seriously don't see the problem with that in a private conversation between 2 adults in a group of children. Bonkers, utterly bonkers.

I'm on the fence with this one. I love living in Wales (have done for nearly 20 years), my DD is not fully bilingual but has a very good grasp, and I am ok on pronunciation although no fluency. Luckily (for me) neither DH or his family speak Welsh - despite this I did spend a good few years getting stick from MIL for being English (she once actually said 'don't worry about Redhot, she's not being rude, she's just English!' ).

But it is an emotive situation, and one I've debated many times with friends of mine who are 1st Language Welsh, and I think the best solution is compromise. Why not sign up for some Welsh lessons and really make an effort to learn, and then explain to your FIL and MIL that the reason you are trying to learn is because you have felt a bit excluded in their company. Ask that they try to include you by speaking English at times, whilst you try to learn Welsh, and ask them and your DH and DCs to support you as much as possible in your learning.

5Foot5 My grandparents spoke Welsh to each other, never teaching their children so they could talk without the children understanding, they did it when they were looking after us grandchildren too. Its sad really because it meant their children couldn't pass the language on to the next generation, my siblings, cousins and I.

I have tried to learn Welsh as an adult but have found it very hard. I can manage with written Welsh quite well but really struggle with spoken Welsh, not least because I live no where near Wales so have no one to practice with, text books can only get you so far!

We once had a group of Italian students staying with us. They had a very basic knowledge of English - some of them were 13 years old. But they attempted to speak in English the whole time. One corrected another when he started to explain something in Italian - reminding him that it was bad manners.

If 13 year olds can do it, and know it's bad manners, why can't adults? YANBU in my view.

Look, one family visit every so often is not going to be disastrous for a child's ability to learn and practice one of their mother tongues, is it? I am a welsh speaker (first language) and my (english) dh and I have raised our childrern bilingually, one parent one language EXCEPT for when we have relatives or friends over who do not understand Welsh. It isn't just about being considerate and inclusive to guests and loved ones, but also about teaching your children to be considerate, inclusive, and kind.

There are no ifs or buts-it is rude.

blewir obviously, that was not directed at you but at some comments further up the thread. Slow typing due to nagging ds1 to settle down and sleeeeeep (in welsh, btw )

Jelly15 YABVU how have you not picked up some welsh despite being immersed in it regularly?

If you truly want to learn welsh sign up for an intensive course. Then have your DH & DC speak nothing but welsh to you. In this situation most people would pick up even the most difficult of languages in a few months.

On a separate note I would find it v.v. difficult if my children spoke a language that I could not & would make a huge effort to learn at least the basics of that language.

Finally I find that people seem to discriminate against minority languages where most speakers also speak some english. Try substituting the word French for Welsh in your op, & then tell me YANBU

Its rude, simple as IMO. I've travelled quite a bit, and only speak English. Everywhere I've been, my company have always switched to English in order to include me in the conversation. We've just waved a Swiss couple off on a tour of Scotland, and they spoke exclusively in English the whole time they were here, they only spoke in Swiss-German when there were translation issues! Even ignorant me could 'get the jist' of whatever conversation they were having and it was always about what the word meant! It was the same when we all met up in the Czech Republic, even where we were very much in the minority, English was used, so that all could enjoy the joke.

YABU. It's very awkward and uncomfortable to talk to someone you know well and have spoken to them in one language for ever, in a second language.

It's not done to be offensive I'm sure, it a matter of habit, a need to convey yourself in your mothers tounge, and also to do with your brain which has been wired and coded to talk in one language in certain situations.

Get over yourself and get stuck in.

I disagree, SenSationsMad. I can do it.

Loony I don't get why speaking French would be any different.

It's about including people in the conversation.

I think it's kind of your DCs to speak to their grandparents in their native language, and disagree with most of the other posters here who seem to think it's to wind you up. If this were the case, then they wouldn't answer you in English.

My grandparents spoke Spanish at home, and wish that I paid more attention as it would have been great to make all my linguistic mistakes at home

Maybe you could structure it somewhat? For instance, language at the table when having a meal is english, but the rest of the time is Welsh? It's also a good time for them to be able to practice their language skills and develop confidence.

MrsGracvy "I seriously don't see the problem with that in a private conversation between 2 adults in a group of children."

What difference does it make that they were with children? They could speak English very well but chose not to when they had a house full of guests who spoke only English. I can't for the life of me see how anyone can interpret that as anything but rude. And anyway, when you are entertaining other people I don't think it is on to be having private conversations that exclude them.

Polyglot you are mistaken. I am not stopping my DS from speaking Welsh in the future, my DH is. I'm English and I don't speak a word of Welsh neither do we live in Wales. I cannot speak to my DS in any other language but English. It is my DH who speaks Welsh and chooses not to with DH. Why do you propose I do?
I am neither here nor there about it? If my DH did speak Welsh to DS I would be happy if that's what DH wants, DH doesn't want.

Empathy Jelly.
I don't speak Welsh either n it used to annoy me so much at governor meetings when one or two insisted on speaking welsh even though they knew one or two of us didn't speak it or understand it. It meant everything had to then be translated which took up valuable (free and voluntary) time!
A few people will suddenly start speaking welsh when they know there's an english person about, although previously they have usually been speaking in english and this is very rude but with your in laws it might just be that they are so set in their ways they don't give it a thought, although they could try a little harder. Maybe your husband should tell them.
Failing that, learn BSL and sign your conversations with them! When they fail to understand you you can say now you know how I feel!

I'm a nice considerate person, polite with it, but it's very uncomfortable for me to talk to DH, DP,DFs, DC in English.

As a first language welsh speaker I find it really hard speaking English to my family (parents, brother) DP is English speaking (we live in Scotland) and when we visit my family I would talk English to them, for example, at the dinner table when DP is in the conversation but if I was just asking a question / generally talking to family around the house it would be in Welsh as that's what I've always spoken to them and it feels really uncomfortable speaking English. They probably haven't realised it bothers you, and tbh if you've lived there that long they probably assume you understand some welsh even if you don't speak it.
I will be teaching my son Welsh so that I can speak to him in my mother tongue, most Welsh speakers have a deep connection with our language and it feels wrong not to use it.
I bet if you speak to them about it they will be really apologetic, and probably won't even have realised they're being rude.

Also dp has agreed it would be a great idea for our son to speak welsh, even though he has no intention of learning any (although he's had to learn some basics, nos da, caru chdi, tisho panad?!!) he doesn't seem to be worried that we'll be having secret conversations without him!!!