AIBU regarding Welsh?

[Jelly15]

DH and I been married for 18 years. He was brought up to speak Welsh as his first language. I was brought up in the same town to non Welsh speaking parents. DSs are billingual but, despite having lessons several times, I have not been able to get a grasp on Welsh.

The problem I have is when DHs family visit and are not talking directly to me they speak in Welsh. DH and DSs answer them in English and translate for me. I have kept my mouth shut for years and understand it if I am in their houses but this is my home and I am about to tell the rude baskets what I think. AIBU?

it's very uncomfortable for me to talk to DH, DP,DFs, DC in English

But presumably less uncomfortable than not being able to understand what they're saying? And if you find it so hard to converse in a language that you speak then surely the struggles that the OP has had with learning another language aren't unknown to you.

Well I think it's bloody rude of you OP to expect them to speak to each other in a foreign (to them) language - just because you haven't managed to pick up a bit of conversational welsh in twenty years!

My husband would never expect me to speak to my mum or other rellies in English in our house, the conversations would just be too weird and stilted! He knows that if wanted to understand what we're talking about, he would have to make an effort to actually learn the language (which to be fair he is now doing)

are you telling these "rude baskets" in Welsh or in English Jelly?! In English I know.

I think really if all but one person in a room are able to converse in 2 languages, to deliberately use the language that excludes that 1 person most/all of the time is rude. I wouldn't find it great either but I wouldn't be good at telling them how I felt. It is ok for a holiday orthe odd visit but if it is a regular part of your life to be left out of family occasions for 18 years, I think you're been quite patient to only bring it up now

Is it a Welsh thing or a bilingualism thing? My daughters are only 2 and a half years and 2 months old but I exclusively speak German to them, and so do my parents/relatives when they're over here to visit or we're over there. I will translate for non-German speakers, but I will not start talking English to them, simply because it's important to stick to the language if I want them to be truly bilingual. Especially if it's the minority language (as in the one the children are less exposed to), it's important to speak it around them as much as possible to maximise exposure.

My husband doesn't speak German, but encourages this, as he wants them to be bilingual too. Once the children are adults and fully fluent in both languages I guess switching is less of an issue, but with young children I think it;s important to stick to the language and translate for those who don't understand it. Nothing to do with rudeness at all.

OP, your mistake was mentioning that the language in question was Welsh. I would lay good money on the replies being completely different if people assumed it was French or Spanish you were talking about.

I don't know. Don't think Welsh is a special case really. How do you mean Gwennie?

Maybe Welsh is a bit more impenetrable to English speakers than French or Spanish.

During the many times I tried out a few phrases l was laughed at by my ILs for my poor pronounciation. Didn't make me feel like trying again. Also I am really uncofortable with the fact that they hate the English and have no problem in voicing their hatred, and in English too. I have tried not to let their attitude, and there are several of my neighbours who feel as my ILs do, get to me and have encouraged my sons by having them taught through the medium of Welsh and they have traditional Welsh names. I am pro the language but with regret I cannot seem to get a grasp on it. I do manage to say hello, goodbye and thank you when I am at my ILs homes I would just like a little repect in my own home that is all.

I just think that Welsh speakers are very defensive of the language in a way that speakers of other languages don't need to be. It's not a criticism and I don't blame them. I'm Irish, we have our own language issues! But this defensiveness is colouring the argument a bit. It's totally understandable but not particularly fair on the OP.

well if you are English and they make a point of telling you (interestingly in English) how much they hate the English, I'm not surprised if you are feeling a bit fed up

oh I see what you mean now, thanks

I'm sure I've been guilty of this myself but it is really really difficult to speak English to someone you are used to speaking Welsh with. And if they are not speaking to you directly.. Well..
I met some English MN friends last week. Should I have spoken English to my dcs in front of them?

ZZen I am Welsh, my parents are and three of my grandparents were. In fact two of my grandparents were Welsh speakers, but there was a time that it was considered common to speak Welsh and the language suffered greatly. The only Welsh I was taught in primary school was the Lord's prayer and the national anthem and then it was never translated so we knew what it meant.

I am really slow at grasping the details of this thread, sorry.

Hmmm, it's tricky

I have tried to learn a bit of Dutch and all of DP's family are always delighted when I give it a try - in fact, I sometimes get applause!! :o

But when I am there, they all try and speak English, even though I am the only non-Dutch speaker.

Sometimes, if we are all sitting around and the conversation is getting intense or complicated, someone will say "Do you mind if I just say this in Dutch? I don't know how to say it in English" and they speak Dutch for a while

If they are saying "Hey do you want a coffee?" they will say it in Dutch - but I can generally get the gist or, if I look puzzled, they will say "Oh sorry - i said...." in English

In general, I never feel like I am being excluded or laughed at because I don't speak their language. They try,in a friendly, open way, to include me when they can. In return, I try and say a few things in Dutch too which they really appreciate.

In short, I think it's about intent - do they intend to exclude you, or make you feel excluded, or are they just not thinking about how you feel. Speaking another language is not rude per se. But if they are doing it to purposely exclude you, it is

Chipotle, I wasn´t suggesting that you speak to your ds in Welsh, my comment was prompted by your apparant glee that your ds will not speak Welsh.

It seems to me that only monolinguals on this thread instinctively find the use of another language "bad manners" or threatening. I suspect almost all bi/multilingual people agree that every language has its time and place depending on who you are talking to. It is NOT so easy or natural to change the language you use with people you have an emotional attachment with. You can start out with good intentions but quickly lapse into the language you normally share with a person. People also think differently and feel differently depending on the language they are speaking at the time.

Jelly, you say you are Welsh, so why are you so offended by your in-laws hatred of the English? You are not English, but Welsh. Speaking the English language is something separate. Do they perceive you as "English" just because you speak English? Are they deliberately trying to insult you? If this is the case I would definitely speak up! You say you have tried to learn Welsh but how hard have you tried? In your position (and having learned many languages) I would suggest giving up after maybe 5 years of evening classes! Everybody is capable of learning a foreign language, if open to it, though it may not always come easily.. Good luck!

Is this North Wales? Been all over the world and never had any rudeness about my origins......except North Wales.

I do agree with Polyglot - I would expect to be able to pick please, thank you, hello, how are you, good morning, good evening, yes, no - in a 2 week holiday in a foreign-speaking country. So I think not having more than 3 or 4 words in Welsh is a little bit, ermm, lame (that sounds harsher than I intend but ykwim!) when you've lived there all your life

Having said that, Welsh is not, of course, the most commonly spoken language in Wales and most media is British and therefore in English so it's a bit of a false analogy with say, Italy or France or Holland

Bloody hell Jelly15, they DO sound rude. I hate that attitude, mocking of people who don't speak the language but taking the piss when people have a go. I'm not surprised you haven't managed to learn Welsh - that would have put me right off too. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, wondering if they thought they were being supportive of you by speaking Welsh. Clearly not. I'd learn a few choice Welsh swear words if I were you...

polyglot - am at a loss to understand how you know which posters are monolingual.

"It seems to me that only monolinguals on this thread instinctively find the use of another language "bad manners" or threatening."

No, not only monolinguals. Like I have said elsewhere on the thread, being polite and inclusive to other people in your company is important, and a lesson worth teaching your children. I am quite happy to speak in english instead of welsh for a short period if it means I don't make people feel lonely in a room full of people. The other 99.8% of the time is proving to be plenty of time to make my children fully bilingual.

Lol 99.8%?! I meant 99.9%

"when DHs family visit and are not talking directly to me they speak in Welsh"

but they aren't speaking to you and they aren't speaking about you, what does it matter. Would you feel the same if they were all French?

YABU

Polyglot, I had three years of evening classes when DH and I got engaged 21 years ago. Two years of evening classes when DS1 was born and five years ago did an intensive course and still know only a few phrases and about thirty or so nouns.

I have difficulty accepting the hatred of the English, or as my SIL says, "F*king Saes (spelling?), because my materal grandmother was English as are two of my best freinds.

Whatmeworry, no this is in the south.

The glee is only in that when they're all nattering away in Welsh I won't have to sit there like a lemon with no one to talk to because DS will be in the same boat.

Incidentally the real question is yes it's bloody rude in any language to exclude one person. I don't give a monkeys what language it is. And yes even if you may feel a bit weird speaking to your parents in a language other than your own it's general good manners to consider those around yourself and speak a language everyone knows.

Welsh is very different to other languages being discussed because Welsh speakers all speak English. And for people to say Jelly (or myself for that matter) should have learnt a bit of Welsh by now is ridiculous. I have no interest in learning it and even if I did where do you propose I learn it?

I think Cory said it best.My grandparents often spoke Welsh to my father in front of my mother ,who at the time had very little welsh.It was just natural for them to flow into speaking welsh with intimate family, they certainly didn't intend to exclude my mother. I do think if you've been exposed to so much welsh for so long that you must have picked up a reasonable amount, I imagine they assume you understand much of what they are saying.