Can we talk about loneliness?

[Daydreaming]

This is not really a AIBU...

Just spotted an article that has really struck a chord with me, about loneliness:
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2019545/The-loneliness-epidemic-Attractive-successful--years-EMILY-WHITE-felt-profoundly-Why-honest-problem-blights-lives.html

I am 30 something and for the last few years I have felt quite lonely. I am sure I am not the only one. Like the writer of that article, I too had short episodes of feeling a bit lonely in my teens and 20s, but nothing like this. I have a professional job and I think I am reasonably interesting/attractive, but circumstances are such that I spend a lot of time feeling lonely.

I know that some of it is to do with the fact that I am not from the UK originally, so don't have any old school/uni friends here. I have loving parents, but they are not in the UK. I am a lone parent to a small child (not by choice). My DD is a great source of joy to me, but she is not a substitute for adult company.

I have two single female friends that I sometimes do things with. I also have two married friends, that I made through DD, but they are more playdate/family activity friends, rather than someone I could call on the weekend. And that's it.

A couple of weeks ago I had a weekend all to myself, without DD, and I was quite happy to read, etc. but I wished there was someone who could just pop over to have a cut of tea with me, etc.

Anyone else who can relate to this?

pinkhousesarebest
The age thing is a big deal for me too - toddler groups etc are hopeless - in this area I am the same age as some of the grandparents.

I ve moved around a lot, and had to find friends wherever I ve moved, which as we all seem to know , isnt always easy. Most good friends I ve made have also been displaced from their home town/home country, and I think its a just a case of being a bit braver than usual and saying "Would you like to come for coffee/to the cinema/meal with me?" I dont think I ve ever made good friends with school/playgroup set - at a time when I was sick of parenting and babies, it made a change to find others who could offer me a change of view from baby routines and parenting traumas. And yes, I think as you get older, you never find that one Best Friend like you had when you were a teenager, but I find it easier to talk to people now, and will talk to anyone - in the supermarket, on the bus, wherever I am - being friendly doesnt cost anything. I m happy with my own company, but its not good for you to be alone all the time, you lose your social skills, so I think it s important to try and reach out and connect with people, even if you have a husband and family, you need other contact with humans as well.

I feel just like Bellini although we've only been here just over a year. We moved with my work and I lost all my old friends as we are too far to realistically keep up the kind of contact that you need to sustain that level of friendship. I'm married and have small DD but like pinkhouses I'm much older than the mums around here and I like to keep work and social life separate. DH has made a close friend through shared interests but I've had to give up my activities due to lack of funds which might have led to some new friends. I feel very lonely but also feel that isn't something I can complain about too much as we moved here for my work rather than DH's.

I read the article today, and I've read this thread with interest. It's got me thinking; I'm not lonely at the moment, although I certainly have been in the past, and a lot of my twenties were spent feeling desolately lonely.

I was thinking about why I don't feel lonely now, when in fact I easily could have recently, given my circumstances. We (DP and DD) moved from London to a small town two years ago. I don't have any close friends nearby, and didn't really expect to make any, I guess, having come from London where people don't connect that easily. For the first year, that was the case, and it didn't bother me, as we do have friends come to stay for the weekend every now and then, and I have a female friend or friends come and visit on a weekday for boozy (or not) lunches occasionally. A small group of mums in the playground were actually really friendly and always happy to chat, so that was really nice, but as has been said on here, there's a big leap between that, and actually meeting up and establishing a friendship. I know I appear to people to be very chatty and outgoing, but I'm actually a depressive (fairly well medicated) and a very anxious person. I'll chat to someone who chats to me, but then I tend to gabble and talk too much, and then afterwards I cringe thinking about how they probably never want to run into me again because I dominate the conversation and make crap self-deprecating quips all the time. The result is that social interaction with people I don't know actually makes me feel very anxious. I'm a very open person, and often feel like I say too much too soon. The upside though, is that the friends I do make, end up being close friends because they know that they can say anything to me, pretty much, and I won't be shocked.

So anywaaaaaaay.. I think there are two reasons I don't feel lonely; one, a few months after we moved here, we got a dog. Walking her, especially when she was a puppy, meant I met and got talking to loads of people. Obviously most of those are superficial interactions, but I had some really interesting conversations with such a wide variety of people. The notable thing about it was, that it's not all the Surrey yummy mummies I got chatting to - they're too busy jogging, or wearing their ipod, or walking with a friend, to notice that all the other people (often much older) are standing around chatting and laughing uproariously (I'm only 38, btw). After a morning walk at a certain place that is particularly friendly, I feel like I've had my daily dose of casual, easy, relaxed chat. Also, I think having the dog shadowing my every move, every minute of the day, stops me feeling lonely. It's like DD, but without the incessant inane chatter.

Two - a year ago, I started working very part time as a carer for an elderly local lady. She's lived here all her life so she tells me loads about the area when I take her out, and we have some really great chats (often quite surreal, as she does get a bit confused at times ). I feel like I can tell her most things (within reason, obviously, some of my wine fuelled chats with mates really wouldn't be for her ears...), and she was incredibly lonely before I started working with her.

So I guess my advice here is; get a dog, and befriend an elderly person.

Seriously though, don't let your 'friend' sights rest only on other women in your agegroup and circumstances. I think friends can be found in the most unlikely places. Recently I hadn't walked at the dog-walking spot I mentioned for a while. On returning (after a month or so away), I was greeted by two late-middle-aged, rather camp (but actually straight) guys with their elderly shitzu, who were chatting to a guy I didn't know, and who shrieked
"THERE you are!! We were just saying, weren't we, how worried we've all been that we didn't see you and (my dog) for so long! We thought you'd been poisoned by one of those mushrooms you like picking, and we've been asking everyone if they'd seen you!"

And incidentally, I slowly slowly slowly got to know a few of the school mums, and then after one of them got a dog (see, it's the dog thing again) and we chatted more, she invited me to go along to a cooperative allotment some of them share. Since then, I can feel the 'friendly aquaintanceship' start deepening towards friendship. I think it takes time, which isn't easy when you're lonely!

I know this has become a total essay (see what I mean about gabbling on??), but just to agree with people who aren't from the UK being friendlier; when I lived in London and DD was little, I used to go to toddler groups, and eventually was befrieded by one lovely woman, who was British Greek, and introduced to her friends, none of whom were English! They were Russian, Hungarian, Indian and American, and incredibly friendly and welcoming - I think it's true that you have to make more of an effort when you are new somewhere.

I just wanted to say to all the lonely people; it does get better, and to widen your sights. Other mums aren't the only option for friends. How about volunteering with a charity or as company for an older person?

My Mum also made new friends when we were teens....one of them was a girl in her 20s and Mum was in her 40s...they just clicked and had an enormous laugh together at work and sometimes they went to the pub together or round to one anothers for coffee. They were like Moter and daughter in a way....Mum also seemed to reconnect with other women she had known for years....i thnk having small kids certainly does mess with your life!

[massive understatement]

figsandwine - brilliant post. I left London and moved to glasgow. It has taken me 7 ( seven) years to make friends. You right when you say keep your options open! It was a v lonely time for me, 5 years of no friends at all but I slowly got there.

I'm in a similar position. Was trying to think who I'd invite to a hen do, were I to have one, and I couldn't think of anyone who wasn't either family or a female friend of DP! I really would like my OWN friends.

I feel envious of girls I know who've had a tight circle of friends since childhood. I also get miffed when someone mentions their "best friend", like until that point I'd harboured some secret hope that I might be their best-mate-in-waiting!

Silly really.

Ah thanks Wentworth - I read that back earlier and felt the same cringiness that I feel after I've talked too much!

I just think that it's easier to connect with people when you just get chatting about something, and that other mums are not always the easiest to get to know. My mum recently got chatting to a stranger in a charity shop, and they ended up having lunch together. I think just connect with people where you can, and don't assume that just because you're not alike, you don't have anything in common.

At times I feel lonely. Other times though I like it just being me, being able to do what I like when I like.
Friends these days seem to be virtual - people on Mumsnet and Twitter - who often I've never met in person... are they real friends though, or just people who might listen (well read) to my ramblings.

Have tried getting involved in church related things to try to get to know other adults - early days yet, never know I might find someone I could call a real friend.

Oh and I'm a bloke, in my mid 30's. So it's not just women feeling lonely, there are men out there feeling the same. I work with children, go to toddler groups but am not good at talking to people, so don't really get to know anyone. My own fault I suppose. I must try harder but I find it hard to talk to people face to face... I don't inturpret bodylanguage well. Making excuses aren't I ... I know I need to make more effort, or maybe I will be forever single and not have friends.

I am another lonely one. Mine partly stems from being single working mum to 3DCs. Leaves very little time for being social and I just feel lonely once the children have gone to bed. Can't do evening classes as I am home with DC evenings, and I feel bizarrely lonelier on the weekends I have the DC than on the weekends I don't. I get out and keep myself busy when the DC are with XH, but when I have the children I take them out and then sit on my own whilst they play, which feels really lonely as everyone seems to be with DP/DH. Most friends have DH/DP so they're busy doing the family stuff...

Thought about a dog, but don't want to be having to get DC up early before school to walk one every day, and then it would be left whilst at work so not sure it would be fair on the DC or the dog!

Have been considering whether I could set up a group in my area for people in a similar situation to socialise, but not sure where to start, anyone any ideas?

i have felt alone much of my life until i had ds. i had a very lonely childhood and often felt alone when in a relationship. i still get lonely at times (i am on my own) but not alone in the same way, it was like i was always looking for something. sounds a bit sickly i know but i have it now and that is unconditional love its here to stay whatever

one of the worse feelings is being out surrounded by friends/family and feeling alone, its an awful feeling and one i used to feel often

i woudl like to live near friends but we are all scattered about so no one just pops in be nice if they did but i am happy it being just myself, ds and the cat i see enough of people through uni/work and my few friends they are great friends and that is what is important to me rather than having lots of friends

Thanks everyone who contributed to this thread. It's sad that so many of us feel that way, but it's helpful to know we are not alone. Lots of food for thought.

Letitlie - I am a lone parent too, so I know exactly what you mean. I used to torture myself by thinking about all the "happy families" I would see when we went out on the weekend. I think it is helpful to remember that we all have our own issues...

oh dear, this thread has made me cry. BIG post coming up

I am feeling incredibly lonely at the moment. It comes and goes but at the moment it's . My bereaved kids (ex died suddenly) have kicked off big time, taking their grief out on me. The result is that I have rarely seen them for the past two years - that hurts so much. I'm not saying that my kids should be my friends but that I thought we would be a family, in each others' lives to a certain degree - don't have to be in each other's pockets but at least in contact! I also have a very cold family and that has made me feel very isolated. I am naturally a warm person and don't get 'cold' tbh.

People think I am strong and confident - I don't big that one up, honest - and actually look frightened if I make a comment that may suggest otherwise. I find it hard to make friends in my age group because most of them are married (and depressingly dependent on their husband for all their social needs) and the ones who aren't tend to be very prickly - I worry that I am getting prickly too. I much prefer the company of younger people, they are so full of life, but they make social engagements with one another, with me standing right there, and I'm not included, which is probably an age thing. I also really enjoy the company of old people - so it's younger and older.

I have been very hurt that old friends kind of let you drift off the edge of their world, though tbh all my old friends are married and oh my goodness there is something quite smug about most marrieds. I also plain don't understand people saying they have enough friends and don't want to make any more. I just don't understand that. It seems quite selfish, that friends are for them, like an accessory - where's the giving in that? I had a friend (note:had) who ostentatiously bemoaned the number of couples they (her and H) had to invite to dinner to return the favour (how popular she was . Invite them all at once, dickhead). As a single person, I was never invited to said dinner parties. My sister also talks about Friends with a capital F - "we're going to Friends for dinner", "We can't stay long, we're meeting Friends". Insufferable, really.

I worked in a cafe for a while and that was brillint for social contact - it's your job to be chatty and friendly, chatting about nothing much. I'd love a dog - because the times I've looked after other people's dogs you meet some gorgeous people on the dog walks - but it is a huge commitment and now my kids have left home I don't want to be tied to the house, especially as I was tied to the house as a £-challenged single parent. My family - as cold and smug as ever - make comments about my lodgers re "at least it's company for you" which i find totally humiliating (also untrue as it happens!); particularly as I am invited to very few family events. I said to my horrible BIL the other day that he wouldn't survive being alone and at least he had the decency to agree. I don't want to wear 'aloneness' like a badge of honour but it's him who is quick with the "at least it's company for you" comments. It's bad enough being alone without other people who are cosy in their relationshps making comments like that. An old friend's husband made some comments like "aw, poor you, no-one to cuddle up with at night" and - yes! - made some private suggestions that he could warm my bed. That poor woman is married to that moron. MInd you, she is as smug as they come so perhaps she deserves him.

You read that people's (ok, celebrities') greatest fear is loneliness. You think "fuck, that's me" and it's hard to get it to sit on your shoulders without letting it crush you: I have the thing that everybody is terrifed of. I genuinely enjoy my own company but would like the choice! I have to hide my loneliness - there is no way on earth that people can cope with it. I think I am an ordinary person who happens to have a crap family, who is divorced, with kids who have gone AWOL. Imo, people are absolutely terrified of loneliness and if they get a whiff that you might be - often by adding 2 + 2 and getting 5 - they run a mile. More about them but that doesn't really help. I also don't want friends (or should I say, Friends) at any cost, thanks - contrary to what a lot of people think.

uh-oh am I feeling sorry for myself . I guess I never talk about it so given the chance a lot of puss comes out [graphic analogy alert]. It's good to talk about it though, to normalise it. It's having to keep it secret that is the killer.

am I totally MAD to have posted that in AIBU? fuck!

You are indeed utterly mad - and pretty damn lovely too! Your family do not know what they are missing x

letitlie - I was also wondering where to find people of similar situation, single mum, 2 kids, very little spare time early evenign

I am also not from UK and am finding impossible to make friends, mums in school weren't ever inviting apart from one who moved away and we keep in touch, but she moved to the other side of London with her job.

I am back home by 6 pm, spend time with kids, cook, housework and only ever meet grown ups weekdays at work.

I feel lonely and am alone, however not always feel miserable in all of it.

thank you thank you thank you for this post.

Like many of the posters on here I thought it was just me and blamed myself for being a social cripple unable to make any friends because there is obviously something wrong with me.

I now know that this is bordering on normal, especially for those who dont live in the place they grew up anymore. I have made a couple of friends here but you tend to find when they have lived in a place forever they have a solid circle of friends which is phenomenally hard to break into. Fort Knox would do well to look at the systems some of these groups of friends use :)

I suppose I have to lay a little of the blame on myself for two reasons, firstly I will give trying to make new friends so long and then decide that I cant be bothered investing the emotional effort into people who dont respond. Maybe I give up too soon I dont know, I have no benchmark really I grew up around boys and have always got on so much better with men than women.

The second thing is something Springydaffs said which chimed with me - "I enjoy my own company but would like the choice" If you are to break into a "hometown" friends group you really have to surrender that choice and launch yourself in and that is something I am not wholeheartedly prepared to do.

It is really cathartic to talk about this to a non judgey group who know where I am coming from.

mumblingragdoll
"Do you know wha I may do? I may have a party...just to do it...say at Christmastime....it makes me quake just thinking of being a host..because I am shy and have low self esteem..but if I invited everyone I know, and laid on nice food and Christmassy drinks....I bet some would come and have a good time."

I would seriously, seriously encourage you to do this. I was a complete loner in my teens and twenties; and my parents were pretty much the same, which with hindsight I see as a big contributor to my poor social skills. In the interests of trying to ensure DS would have a different experience - and that we knew a wide enough circle of his friends' parents that he'd be invited along to things - I made a conscious effort when he started school to invite kids and his class and their parents around for BBQs etc. And you know what? I actually made several good friends as a result - people who I would have considered too cool or too scary to be MY friends. And a few years down the line many people have thanked me for inviting them over and introducing them to other people..... DH thinks it's hilarious that a complete sociopath like me should be responsible for social networking.

I think part of the problem is that now that we don't have "compulsory" weekly meet ups at places like church, our families are miles away so we don't get to meet friends of family once we're adults, and a lot of people commute to work and don't see the neighbours in daylight hours - there isn't much opportunity to meet people who live locally and whom you could "pop in" to see. Other than by getting a dog that is (a belated thanks to all those dog walkers at Hilly Fields who kept me sane by speaking to me when I was a severely depressed mother of a six month old walking round and round the park of an evening.....)

zukiecat and to everyone else who posted a big hug, this really is a very thought provoking thread....

I agree there are different types of 'loneliness', feeling alone even when you are with someone...
And I totally get moving away from your 'hometown' I moved about 11 years ago before I had my dc's, for me even though I have made friendships, because I don't have any family or 'my history' here I do have an underlying feeling of being adrift, and can have feelings of being disconnected...

I also agree with being open to having little chats with everyone, thats what I missed from my hometown; also for me moving to a large city was quite different, with a faster pace of life etc.....

There is always hope, everyone can connect on here and give encouragement..

I can relate to the sentiment, haven't read the article.

I have no real friends TBH, only acquaintances. For the most part I'm fine with this, but sometimes it would be nice to have a real friend to go out with for the day.

If any of you live near me, I'll come and pop in. I'd love to have someone to just pop in to. Seems like you ladies would enjoy having someone popping in. (As would I) (Given the house is not at the time in a state of pigsty-ness)

Well actually perhaps we should meet up in a coffee place first, but you get my meaning?

I live in NW Surrey.

I understand you. I've recently moved to South Africa. Hubby is in work and kids are in school, they have routine, friends and normality. I have nothing. My visa prevents me from working. For the first time in my life I'm not surrounded by people. The kids are 12 & 16 so no school gates or play dates, no work to meet people. It is hard and very lonely. 100's suggestions re joining clubs and how to meet people but it's got to be done your way, your time and your conditions. I'm learning to like myself a little more and be comfortable with the new me and tweet, non bloody stop, it's kept me going. Pop over to twitter and say hi I'm @chickenruby.

I find this thread fascinating.

I went through a phase a few years ago when dd2 was a baby of being incredibly lonely, I work from home, so had neither colleagues nor mum friends and two small dcs made it impossible to keep up with established friends.

I did a variety of things - made a big effort to go out once a month with dd2 antenatal class - I organised it - because I couldn't go to toddler groups etc with them in the day. I joined a choir full of people at least 30 years older than me and went every week. Through nursery I eventually met a man who is exactly on my wavelength and I made an effort, as did she, to see each other for regular coffees - she works shifts so is quite often around in the day and I decided my mental health was more important than finishing all my work on deadline.

Now dcs are older I make a big effort to meet old friends in the evening at least once a week and to have lunch with old friends at least once a week too. I'm not lonely at all now, quite the opposite but it was a horrible time, as debilitating as an illness and eventually I did become ill with bad flu - largely as a result of becoming so emotionally run down.

I also stopped spending too much time on here. Even though internet friendships can be amusing, they are not sustaining. Anyone on here who's lonely I'd advise to get offline, to join some groups (God, I sound like Jackie magazine in 1984) and pursue, pursue, pursue people who look likely friend candidates. Some will ignore you but many will be grateful for the opportunity.