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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be very sad and angry when I see a child getting smacked

187 replies

ohnoudidnt · 27/07/2011 21:27

Was shopping today and have never seen a child get hit so hard ...he was about 3 ...It really upset me.I do not agree with hurting a child in any way and wish it could be banned.

OP posts:
happy2bhomely · 28/07/2011 12:07

I do think a child running into a road can be compared to someone who doesn't understand, because if a child really understood that running into the road could kill them, then they wouldn't do it. They don't understand, no matter how much you tell them sometimes.

coccyx · 28/07/2011 12:10

If its really hard then i would be upset. An adult assulting a 3 year old . lovely

Cat98 · 28/07/2011 12:13

Whatmeworry - I totally disagree that "no parent wants to use it and most feel terrible".
Sadly this is not always the case. There are lots of people that feel it is another weapon in their arsenal (a sad way to think about parenting imo but it's true)

Altinkum - Many countries have banned smacking. So it's not a failed nspcc campaign.
Don't you think there must be a reason why the nspcc are so against smacking? After all, they must see many cases of "real" abuse. Why are they not saying "oh, smacking children is fine, it's not real abuse like we see every day". Becasue it can be the tip of the iceberg? Because they just don't agree with it? Because it doesn't work?

Cat98 · 28/07/2011 12:14

Re the child running into the road - if you have a free hand to smack them, can't you just grab them?

msbuggywinkle · 28/07/2011 12:16

Surely in the 'running into the road scenario' what happens is this.

Toddler starts running to the road. Mum yells, 'stop' (or similar) in a horrified voice, if toddler then carries on, Mum chases, grabs toddler away from danger. Toddlers aren't stupid, they can tell from tone of voice and reaction that something scary just happened. Then one line explanation when you've calmed down 'Road, cars go fast, kill/hurt baby'. I just can't see where smacking even comes in.

I can't imagine a case in which I would think smacking was justified. If it is assault to an adult, it is assault to a child.

happy2bhomely · 28/07/2011 12:18

My 3 yr old has also ran off towards a road while I was pushing a baby in a pushchair. I ran, picked them up, and realised I better hold on to her tighter.

I'm not trying to be nasty and of course I realise kids can push you to your limits, but I think there are better ways, that's all. If it works for you and your family, then good for you. I'm just saying that I don't choose the same as you. I'm sure your kids are as loved as mine and they are all alive because of our efforts, despite the differences in our methods.

Whatmeworry · 28/07/2011 12:22

Toddler starts running to the road. Mum yells, 'stop' (or similar) in a horrified voice, if toddler then carries on, Mum chases, grabs toddler away from danger. Toddlers aren't stupid, they can tell from tone of voice and reaction that something scary just happened.

You all forgot the wilful, tantrumming bit, makes a big difference...... but clearly I am a Crap Mummy compared to your enlightened and superior parenting skills.

Ah well..... is this the right time I admit I also bottlefed my kids and didn't always use Organic Vegetables in thepuree :o

msbuggywinkle · 28/07/2011 12:24

Really, sounding horrified and grabbing the toddler (yes even a tantrumming one) is enlightened and superior?!?

Lovesicecream · 28/07/2011 12:29

It's pretty disrespectful to compare a confused elderly person ( who obviously would be suffering from an illness) to a child,

You believe hitting children is abusive but restraining the elderly is ok? So children have rights but the elderly don't? They can be restrained and treated/ talked to like you would a child? Not realy

farnywarny · 28/07/2011 12:30

We used to get hit with a scholl sandal.

I remember going upstairs one day in summer and my dad said 'oh you have caught the sun on your legs today' and my reply was 'no mums just hit me'

Did me NO harm. DS gets a smack on the bum when he really pushes me and he needs a short sharp shock.....would you report me op?????

DoMeDon · 28/07/2011 12:30

If I hit my when there was wilful, tantrummy behaviour I'd have a sore hand!

That's DC isn't it? As for the crap mummy/organic veg Hmm Yawn - next you'll spout about benign neglect.

happy2bhomely · 28/07/2011 12:32

I'm not saying that anyone is a 'crap mum', but I do manage to keep my kids safe without hurting them. My kids have all been wilful and having a tantrum but I've still managed them without hurting them. Surely we agree to a point. We agree that it's not nice. We just don't agree that it's necessary.

Meita · 28/07/2011 12:36

When I was born, my parents were with the 'Children of God', a pseudo-religious sect (nowadays known as 'The Family') which condoned, even encouraged violence for disciplining children (says my mother) (and other very unsavoury behaviour towards children too, but that's another story). They left the sect (thank goodness for that) when I was 6 months, DSis was 2 years old. My mum says she is today still worried if the smacking DSis got when very little contributed to the mental health trouble she is having now.
So my personal experience of physical discipline is the other way round from escalating - it was what my parents knew, but it got gradually less until it disappeared totally.
I have very vague memories of having bottom spankings, initially with a belt, later just hands. I must have been about 4yo as that's when my earliest memories are from. What I remember is never having given a thought about it, until it was 'right, that was really bad, off for a spanking' and then being terrified until it was done, then being relieved as it was all ok again and hadn't actually been so bad.
A bit later, I seem to remember an incidence (there surely were more than one, but one I remember) when my mum said something along the lines of 'don't do that' and when I still went ahead 'that's really bad, if you don't stop it will merit a spanking' which convinced me it was REALLY bad, so I stopped.
Again a bit later, my parents would count to three and give us a slap in the face if we hadn't stopped whatever it was by three. I only ever remember being slapped once, actually. Then it was a case of when mum started to count to three, I knew she really meant it, whatever she was saying; so I stopped. Not really because I was afraid of the slap, but more because I knew she was very serious about whatever it was.
This 'counting to three' thing stopped too, when I was about 8 or so? No more physical disciplining, nor threats of it, since then.
You could say in this instance the physical disciplining 'worked'. It showed me when something was off limits; I didn't do it again; and yet, I never lived in fear of violence, as I never, ever got smacked out of the blue, and knew I wasn't going to be. It didn't escalate and get worse, either.

I can see a sort of positive thing here: The threat of violence helped me, as a child, to distinguish between something where there was space for misbehaving and negotiating and options, and something where there was not. However, I do believe that there are other ways to achieve this, without resorting to physical disciplining (or the threat of). I intend to avoid any physical disciplining with my own DS. Though it is easy to say now (he's 11m, - and already I'm finding it hard to deal with when the only way to change his nappy/get him dressed and such involves physically restraining him (he's so strong!) against loud protests and much wriggling. I'd prefer not to physically restrain him but don't see any other way at the moment.)

One thing that strikes me in these threads is often how people compare treating children with treating adults. Like, you can't/wouldn't smack an adult, so why should you be allowed to smack a child. I agree insofar as I wouldn't smack a child either. But I think the reasoning is a bit wrong. I think we can't expect children to think and behave like adults. Ergo, sometimes we need to 'be the adult' and treat them like children, which can be different to treating them like adults; set boundaries/tell children what to do, without 'convincing' them, reasoning with them. Sometimes 'because I say so' needs to be enough. Respecting a child, I think, means to respect the fact that they cannot make independent decisions about everything, but rather want to be just a child sometimes too; trusting you to keep them safe, means trusting you to save them from themselves sometimes.

Of course you would disagree with a husband treating his wife like that (telling her to do something 'because I say so' for instance). Why would you disagree? Because it would mean he is treating her like a child. But children do need to be treated like children sometimes. They shouldn't be made to bear responsibility for every thing they do; they shouldn't be required to keep themselves safe.

I just hope I will find a way of letting my child know when there is a boundary that is not to be crossed (like for instance, no running out onto the road) vs. when there is room for whims and negotiations, in a healthy, constructive way without resorting to physical violence or the threat of it.

Maamaa · 28/07/2011 12:36

Wow, this is some debate! I have a 1 year old so it's not an issue for me yet but it is something I think about and have discussed with DP. I was smacked as a kid if I was really naughty-eg bit my sister!) and I do remember it, and that it didn't hurt but was very scary. I think only my Dad did the smacking too as that's the only one I recall. I guess it didn't do me any harm though I'm still a bit scared of him-not physically but I hate it if he gets cross even now and get that same scared feeling. We really had a bad relationship when I was a teenager too and I wonder if that's partly because of it. Who knows?! I like to think I will never smack my child and I think the analogy of an confused elderly relative is a good one actually. If it is so horrifying to us to think of smacking an adult why is it Ok to smack a child who depends on you and loves you more than anything or anyone in the world. I would hate to see her physically scared of me. I'm sure there will be times when she does test me but I also think that there are other ways to handle the situation than lashing out.

happy2bhomely · 28/07/2011 12:37

Lovesicecream-I'm sorry if I was disrespectful. Yes I would restrain an elderly person who was trying to walk into traffic. Yes I would restrain a child who was trying to walk in to traffic. What would you do?

I wouldn't treat an elderly person like a child but I would treat ALL vulnerable people with respect and sensitivity and try my best to protect them from harm. I'm sorry if my analogy caused offence, it sounded better in my head!

Nancy66 · 28/07/2011 12:43

It is never, ever acceptable to hit children. It's such a nasty, mean, abusive thing to do - and fucking cowardly as well.

don't you remember how giant adults looked to you as a kid? Imagine how it would feel now as an adult to have an 8ft person hit you - pretty, bloody terrifying.

I also think parents that pull down the underwear of children to spank bare bottoms are probably getting a sexual thrill from it

happy2bhomely · 28/07/2011 12:57

Woah!!! Nancy66, I believe it is done to embarrass and humiliate. At least that's how I felt when it happened to me. I do not think my parents EVER got "a sexual thrill" out of it.

I hope I have managed to present a reasoned and quite sensible defence for my beliefs (I know some have questioned my 'elderly relative' example!)

I hope other people try to do the same. It makes it an interesting debate rather than a horrible slanging match.

Nancy66 · 28/07/2011 13:04

happy2b - I think when it's done to older children - and in front of others - then something more sinister is at play.

I'm no expert but I can't imagine that the mindsets of those who physically abuse are that far removed from those that sexually abuse

BulletWithAName · 28/07/2011 13:06

I used to get hit with a wooden spoon, we used to call it 'the licking stick'. Me and my brother laugh and laugh about how our dad used to smack us, he used to pull this hilarious face. Never scarred us at all, in fact we all laugh about it.

To be fair, I was a proper little shit when I was a kid, I don't blame my parents for giving me a good hiding!

Maamaa · 28/07/2011 13:06

Hear hear happy2bhomely-it really bugs me that these debates so often descend into abuse and personal attacks. no need.

pigletmania · 28/07/2011 13:07

nancy you got your judgy pants high enough

deliciousdevilwoman · 28/07/2011 13:11

Nancy66-I doubt it's for a sexual element, but as happy says, to embarass and humiliate. To pull down underwear makes it worse-there is an element of premeditation as opposed to "reacting" in the moment when giving a smack(not that that makes it "right"). I am surprised that a few posters on here were spanked, at 15/16-let alone on the bare.

I was a child growing up in the 70's and was smacked much less frequently than my friends. It happened a handful of times, always a single "swat" and always over clothing. Never happened again after the age of 7/8. I don't feel scarred, but I sure as hell would have done had it been on the bare, an implement used or when I was almost a young woman. ffs!

I remember reading years ago, about that teacher in Scotland, who was jailed and lost his job, after pulling down her knickers and spanking his 10 year old daughter in the waiting room of the dentist after she became hysterically upset before a tooth extraction. Cunt deserved it. Such a barbaric humiliation for a young girl.

pigletmania · 28/07/2011 13:16

There was a poster on here, when she was 15 her dad pulled down her pants and smacked her and she was on her period Shock

BulletWithAName · 28/07/2011 13:18

Now that is Shock pigletmania

MrSpoc · 28/07/2011 13:21

Smacking is not illegal, leaving a bruse is. Its down your own personal parenting requirments.

Maybe kids are little shits know because no one can discipline (effectivly) and kids are no longer scared of adults.

Also if someone challenged me in the street for disciplining my child i tell them to mind there own business.

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