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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be very sad and angry when I see a child getting smacked

187 replies

ohnoudidnt · 27/07/2011 21:27

Was shopping today and have never seen a child get hit so hard ...he was about 3 ...It really upset me.I do not agree with hurting a child in any way and wish it could be banned.

OP posts:
SequinsAndSparkles · 27/07/2011 21:52

Because, LyingWitch in the eyes of some, it is cruel. To inflict pain on your small child, because they are not doing things as you would like, is wrong. And how are you supposed to explain to them later in life, 'You Must Not Hit', if you have smacked them. How can you tell them, that it's wrong for others to hurt them, but it's ok for you to do it? It's wrong and an abuse of power.

RitaMorgan · 27/07/2011 21:53

Are you sure malinois? I was also under the impression that it is illegal in Scotland. In England and Wales it is illegal to mark the skin, cause injury or use an object.

ledkr · 27/07/2011 21:55

Largely illegal? As opposed to what,smally illegal? It is not illegal in England but if you mark a child you can be prosecuted and the child subject to safeguarding procedures.
Yanbu but this thread will take off as usual so i will pull up a seat and grab a handfull of icooksocks popcorn.

Ivortheengine8 · 27/07/2011 21:56

..............joins ledkr with the popcorn

Henwelly · 27/07/2011 21:57

icooksocks Vodka?

FreudianSlipper · 27/07/2011 21:57

just because you are their mother does not give you the right to harm them, i hate that line it is so often used, you make yourself look utterly stupid coming our with that because you actually do not have the right to discipline them how ever you please there are laws to prevent you harming your children. shame you can take you children almost anywhere, i find i can take ds anywhere (that he is allowed) sometimes he plays up and we deal with it without smacking threats

while i do not think the odd smack will necessarily harm a child i do not agree with smacking at all it is totally unnecessary. i have never and will never smack ds, does not mean i have not wanted to in anger but doing so i would lose control and hurt him and why would i want to do that

malinois · 27/07/2011 21:58

learningcurve No idea where you might have got that idea. It was banned in schools mid-80s-ish - I remember a lot of teachers being upset about that and a few kids getting a load of extra beatings before the ban.

It's illegal in most civilised countries such as the Scandinavian countries, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands etc.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/07/2011 21:58

SequinsAndSparkles... Yes, but what's the point of hand-wringing? Doing nothing about it when you see it? If you think it's that bad then do something, report it. To be honest, I think a smacker in public is often a parent at the end of their tether who wants to get their child's attention to stop whatever it is they're doing. It's the covert parents who seem to fall under the radar who end up with the dead chilren... a bigger problem in my eyes.

I don't think it's alright for parents to swear in front of their children, that's abusive to me, but they do and then proudly declare that they 'don't smack'.

I just think that there are better things to expend sadness and anger on. I know of parents who have smacked their chilren, I think they're excellent parents and the smacks are few and far between. I don't believe that children buy in to the 'violence concept' from parental smack and I actually don't think it's abuse. I don't think we're seeing the aftershocks from the 'ban' yet. It seems if there is enough loudness from the public, the government will implement all manner of minor impact legislation and miss the bigger and more serious issues completely.

malinois · 27/07/2011 22:01

Rita;

See here for status of physical punishment of children in Scotland. You can see that there was no outright ban, although the legislation is a lot tighter than E+W.

icooksocks · 27/07/2011 22:02

I don't have vodka Sad but I do have copious amounts of Lager!!

SequinsAndSparkles · 27/07/2011 22:02

Well then we will have to agree to disagree, because I do think that it's abusive, and I don't think that you can possibly be an 'excellent parent' if you smack your children. Too big points that we clearly completely disagree on. For the record, I don't swear at my DD, I don't swear around her either.

Original poster
ohnoudidnt · 27/07/2011 22:03

FreudianSlipper I agree.

For those of you who do smack your children,why do you? and what are the benefits?....As opposed to a child that is not smacked.I have never smacked my dc and NEVER would and can also take them anywhere,they have good behaviour,fine at school,nice friends etc.....So what really are you getting out of it apart from physically hurting your children?

OP posts:
Henwelly · 27/07/2011 22:03

Icooksocks
how big is your tv?

icooksocks · 27/07/2011 22:06

32 inch and its attached to the wall Grin

[just call me a chav emoticon]

LordOfTheFlies · 27/07/2011 22:07

I would say it is never right to smack a toddler .You have to remove them and reason with them as much as possible.

But I'll give you two examples of when I gave DS a single smack on the bum.( I hate to see a child being hit on the head)

DD and DS milling about in a shopping mall.I kept grabbing their arms/clothes to make them walk beside me. DS would have been 8-9 so old enough to do this.
He ran to get into a shop he wanted to go into -as children do. Unfortunately he ran right in front of a man with two crutches. The man didn't trip over him but it was a near miss.I gave DS a sharp smack to stop him short not to hurt him.Then I made him think about his actions and the results if he'd sent the man flying because of his stupidity.

He tends to kick stones ( the ones on driveways which migrate everywhere) when we walk to school. I keep telling him he might break a window or scratch a car. Or if something gets damaged he might get blamed.So when he did it again after warnings and he wasn't listening, I gave him one swipe. He stopped.

Some things though are SO dangerous. I was driving on the M6, just me and DCs. He was 7 she was 4.6. They were strapped in the back, had small toys, paper etc but were mucking about winding each other up.
I tried to ignore them as I can't drive when I'm angry and I warned them I would dump their toys. (We did stop for lots of breaks BTW)

Then one of them-don't know which one, they blamed each other- threw something (small toy) over my shoulder , at the windscreen.

I was %&@££" and stopped at the next service station , opened the car boot and put everyone of their toys in the bin*.
Whenever I ask the anti-smacking brigade what they would do in that situation ( on a motorway with missiles being thrown and the DCs not listening. "Do stop that darling or mummy might crash the car and we'll all be killed in a nasty accident" doesn't work.

Breathe

Henwelly · 27/07/2011 22:08

cool, just like to know who i'm drinking lager and coke with Wink

coo??l Confused

pigletmania · 27/07/2011 22:12

Wow the judgy pants are well and truly up.

Ivortheengine8 · 27/07/2011 22:12

I agree that there are a whole host of things that could be regarded as abusive and I don't think it should be limited to smacking.

Like lying said, I have seen parents stand there shouting and swearing abuse at their children and yet these are the same people who say that a tap on the hand is abuse. In fact emotional and pshycolgical abuse is far more severe and rampant but we don't hear much about that do we?
Letting their children get obese and sit in front of tv all day and eat what they want, letting them stay up all night watching 18 movies or playing computer games. These things are often much more powerful than an overt smack on the hand or bottom.

FreudianSlipper · 27/07/2011 22:18

i do not know anyone who swears and screams abuse at their child but is against tapping them, but i have come across many who scream and shout at their children and think nothing of giving them a slap across the legs

and how would i deal with it, not by smacking them, telling them they had done wrong, pulling over on a motorway which i have had to do because ds was wiggling out of his seat. there are other ways to deal with things, if there weren't all those that do not smack would have children running wild but surprisingly most don't. and those who are anti smacking are not soft, its harder to take the time to explain what they are doing wrong than lashing out or threatening to to get them to behave

i think smacking while not always abusive it is certainly lacking respect and teaching your child that anger and violent acts go hand in hand

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/07/2011 22:18

I've been thinking about this everytime it's come up as a thread and I was remembering back to when I was a child....

Yes, I did get smacked. I must have been smacked about five times in my whole life. I can only remember two instances, but I won't say what they were for... I was ten or eleven. Blush

To me, the most abusive thing you can put your child through is shouting and arguing and slamming doors. Absolutely terrifying for a child and so very, very common. I bet some of the non-smackers do this on a daily basis and delude themselves that they're fantastic parents. I would beg to differ. A smack is short and sharp, and easily forgotten... I still remember the rows and I'm over 40 now.

Original poster
ohnoudidnt · 27/07/2011 22:19

Ivortheengine8 I agree, emotional and pshycolgical abuse is also another form of abuse..... fat kids though,or a child that has stayed up late watching chucky ,is not remotely the same as a kid that is scared of their parents.

OP posts:
NorfolkBroad · 27/07/2011 22:20

i think it is absolutely vile. It makes me feel ill. My mum and dad were absolutely wonderful parents but they did occasionally "spank" us as kids. I'm sorry to say that even though I adore them both i cannot rationalise it or forgive them for it! I argued about it recently with my mum and asked her in what other circumstance would you justify hitting another person? Especially when you are bigger and more powerful than the other person. I cannot bear it.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/07/2011 22:21

I'd disagree with you, FreudianSlipper, the smacks I had were not in anger. An angry adult can do a hell of a lot of damage in smacking a child... broken bones, bruises, broken skin. That's not normal discipline and never has been, even when smacking were not frowned upon.

NorfolkBroad · 27/07/2011 22:22

Reading this back i don't mean that I lie awake at night feeling angry with my folks! I just mean that when other people say "I was smacked as a kid and it did me no harm" I never agree and always feel horrible about it.

snippywoo2 · 27/07/2011 22:22

My son was walking home from school last week, he's 15. There was a women walking in front of him with a baby in a pushchair and what he thought to be a little girl aged about 3 holding the pushchair handle, she let go and was walking maybe 2 paces ahead not running off or anything. The mother who was talking on her mobile at the time noticed this and grabbed her by her pony tail and yanked her back so hard the child was screaming in pain. The mother proceeded to shout at the top of her voice in a foreign language so my son didn't understand what she was saying to her. He came home quite upset and shocked that someone could treat a child in this way, but felt he couldn't say anything to the women as she was speaking a language he didn't understand. He couldn't believe that parents can treat their children like this, that they can get away with it as long as they don't leave a mark.