To think those who try to justify the Norwegian bomber are not even as bad as a racist just sick.

[maypole1]

Turned on the radio today, and can't believe how people are trying to put this on the Muslims and justify the crazy bomber.

And even suggesting we should listen to what he has to say, I just wonder why these same people were calling for us to listen to Osama after 9/11

Because by the same logic he might have had a message (god help us)

And I wonder if any of these net mums just have the balls to say I am a racist and what, because I have more respect for that person than someone who uses immigration as a fig leaf for their racism.

Just before we start if any one uses the term English please be clear whom you are talking about

Any one who is born here

Or any one who is white

Also the term immigrant means someone who is in the country legally and can't claim any benefits and who has to work

Asylum seeker is different

Just want to be clear

Found this on Twitter today. Seems relevant to some on this thread.

Zizek on the rise of "acceptable racism: the sort you can profess and still pretend to be a reasonable person".

Nope, not me. Racism implies RACE not religion. Opposing a religion based upon beliefs is perfectly acceptable.

I also oppose the BNP for it's beliefs.

The point of mentioning te shop was that both staff and customers spoke their own mother tongue and not English....not that there were a few foreigners. I don't want to feel like an unwelcome visitor in my own country.

Nope, not me. Racism implies RACE not religion. Opposing a religion based upon beliefs is perfectly acceptable.

You seem to be contradicting yourself there posie. You don't want to feel unwelcome in your own country? Sorry, but it's not YOUR country...it belongs to every person who has a legal right to be here.

You don't like people and customers in a random ASIAN shop speaking in their own language? That's racism. You're a racist and you hate people who are Muslim. Please stop denying it.

Contradicting myself? Is that ironic?

"Sorry, but it's not YOUR country...it belongs to every person who has a legal right to be here." So it is my country and it may other people's too, but this country has the official language of ENGLISH. The person, not myself, that mentioned the shop said she was made to feel unwelcome, not just by the language spoken but the attitudes of the staff and customers....that's okay with you though. I worked in an all boys Muslim state school, how on earth that happens goodness knows, the boys were not permitted to speak their own language when a British (english speaking) teacher was present as the school felt it was rude. The boys did however, but it was a school rule.

Islam, along with most religion, is a thorn in the side of humanity.

You are becoming a thorn in the side of humanity.

Lady...you claim to be able to tell us all about these countries that are more free, you named a few none of which were 'more free'....can you please elaborate how they are or shall I just assume, as I have already, that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Erm America. That country is free. Ireland. Spain. Germany.

You assume all followers of Islam live in caves in Afghanistan.

Don't be silly. Can you tell me how USA is more free than the UK? Or Ireland? Spain? Germany? Just a couple examples will do, not too much trouble.

You assume I don't know Islam, or Muslims, I do. Some rich, middle eastern, converts, rejecters, you name it.

In terms of Islam?

But I thought all Muslims rejected you?

How do you know Muslims if they all turn their backs on you and ignore you and none of them speakah thee English...how do you communicate because I can bet my ass on the fact you don't speak another language.

I wonder what an assless woman looks like? What a stupid thing to assume? Based upon what? One thread on the internet, very funny. Wo liang sui jiang laing zhong yuyan. It's not hard.

Based upon the fact you're British and have made the point of not being connected to any "forriners".

Posie now you're not even talking about religion!! You are talking about certain sections of society not speaking English. Did you know that no one can come into the country anymore unless they can speak English? You are a bigot. Nothing more. People like you sicken me. Guess what?

Guess what?

OMG going to Zara!! Now that is the one place I feel unwelcome & get funny looks off immaculate assistants. Nothing fits me in there. I've seen plenty of curvy Spanish girls who I expect have the same problem too so god knows why the clothes are so small.

I feel 'invisible' when my self-confidence is low - your visibility as a person is linked to your confidence, body language, self-projection & communication skills. If you don't feel part of a 'group' then it doesn't help your confidence. One of my Fillippino friends says she feels nervous when there are no other Fillippinos around as she's very shy & worries that english people may think she's here to marry an englishman, take his money & get a passport. In fact she has a good career, a flat, & a UK passport anyway. Happily she's now socialising with a variety of people & has found a (lower salaried) english boyfriend who likes her for who she is & not because he has an fetish about SE Asian girls (her other fear).
It's normal to be concerned that people of a different race / religion will stereotype you - even I worry about it at times. BUT if they do that it's THEIR problem - not yours. It's normal to sometimes feel threatened when you live among a group of people different to you - even if there is no threat at all.

But seriously - Islam has millions of followers who worship in so many different ways (or not at all!!). Just as Judaism & Christianity do. I'm not religious (never christened etc) but I believe everyone should follow their beliefs and be happy.

No I haven't. My parents live in china. I have made no such point about non Brits, you're talking shit.

The only good thing about these sorts of threads is discovering how many other Muslims there are on MN.

I am honestly baffled by the amount of crap being spouted on this thread! I didn't realise people thought like this! 'Islam, along with most religion, is a thorn in the side of humanity' - honestly! As has been so often pointed out, Britain is a free country for people to practice whichever religion they like if they want to!

As for the comments about certain communities not intergrating in society - I wouldn't want to intergrate with some people on this board! And in all honesty dont most people - whatever race/religion stick to their own friends and family?

It makes me sad when people view the world this way, I'm glad it's not me!

Sorry for butting in, as you were :-)

Posie - just wondered - what languages do your parents speak in China?

Also - agree completey with Katyrah - this is the oddest thread I have seen on Mumsnet. Some really muddled thinking on here from some very ignorant people

My parents speak English, Cantonese and some Mandarin. As my father inspects production in huge amount of factories for a multi national it would be impossible not to. Although that said English is the international language of business, well pretty much everything and so he spends most of his days talking English.

And no not all people stick to their 'own' family and friends ergo their own nationality. Academics, medics for example are professions in which there are a wide range of nationalities......I wonder if this has something to do with basic education?

The trouble in the UK is that we put groups of whatever nationalities together and encourage segregation. In London there are whole tower blocks where people are one nationality/culture as they will not mix and racism is rife.

It really feels like some posters have a default position of shouting racist if anybody says anything negative about race, religion or migrants. The reality is much more complex than you are giving it credit.

For example, Mr Bloom " NO ONE in the store could speak English properly. They were all Spanish or French...they are offering me a service, that I don't care HOW I get (when talking about Zara).

I have made it clear that I think people should be able to talk in whatever language they wanted to. My point wasn't about shops per se or people in shops not speaking English. My point was that as a white English speaker I no longer feel that I belong to the geographical community where i live. This is not because of 1 element such as people in shops. I gave some examples, but feeling/not feeling part of the community where you live is a subtle thing and influenced by many factors.

Mr Bloom - You may not care whether you feel part of your geographic community. I actually miss it - but it is not a big deal in my life. But when I was a mum with young DC, no car and little money, feeling part of my local community was very important - and I did feel part of it then. Talking to other customers and shopkeepers was an important part of my day as it was adult conversation.

I suspect it is the same for elderly people who live alone. BTW I know some have great social lives - but I am always shocked by surveys that talk about the number of elderly people who don't speak to another person for days at a time.

For people working with busy social lives, geographic communities are far less important. Particularly if you have money and access to transport that means you can travel for a social life. But not everybody is in that situation. And for some their geographic community is where they spend most of their time.