To think those who try to justify the Norwegian bomber are not even as bad as a racist just sick.

[maypole1]

Turned on the radio today, and can't believe how people are trying to put this on the Muslims and justify the crazy bomber.

And even suggesting we should listen to what he has to say, I just wonder why these same people were calling for us to listen to Osama after 9/11

Because by the same logic he might have had a message (god help us)

And I wonder if any of these net mums just have the balls to say I am a racist and what, because I have more respect for that person than someone who uses immigration as a fig leaf for their racism.

Just before we start if any one uses the term English please be clear whom you are talking about

Any one who is born here

Or any one who is white

Also the term immigrant means someone who is in the country legally and can't claim any benefits and who has to work

Asylum seeker is different

Just want to be clear

Seriously who would choose to be gay? And I mean that in the 'it's a harder life' way not that there's anything wrong with it.

Lady. I think, and I knew I would, have seen your true colours.

Reeling. You must have a lovely relationship with your son and he must trust you with his feelings to tell you when he was sixteen, so many people have to deny or bury their true feelings for years. Have to say we rarely use the word 'normal' in this house when we talk about relationships as I hope if any of my children are gay that they would know we would not disappointed.

ThePosieParker. I agree, why would anyone choose to be gay? it's a very hard life for most of them, unless you're a famous homosexual, and even they get ridiculed. That's why it's ridiculous to say it's a lifestyle choice, it's not, it's a life of hardship and prejudice. most people tolerate homosexuals, but they will never have true equality, which is very sad. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, Islam will never accept homosexuality, people need to wake up and smell the coffee where that's concerned.
And I agree with the poster who said people like to mix with their own kind, that's true, why should Muslims to forced to mix if they don't want to? I spend a lot of time in New York, the most liberal city in the world, it has the gay quarter, the Italian quarter, that's what people want, to stick together. Is that so bad?
And to the people on Mumsnet striving for diversity, Mumsnet is not diverse, for all it's advertising spheel it's not laughingly referred to as 'sheepsnet' for nothing. It's a forum for like minded people.
Muslims should be allowed to keep themselves to themselves as far as I'm concerned, the problem is with the very vocal Muslim extremists who want to stamp out homosexuality and the other Western freedoms we enjoy. I don't know what the answer is.

Shock horror another Muslim here.
I mix with all sorts of people. My circle of close friends include English, German, Brazilian, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi.
I have a work colleague who is a good friend who is gay.
I am Masters educated, work and earn good money.
All my Muslim friends are like me. Just ordinary, friendly, hard working and fun loving people.
The only difference is that none of us wear the hijab so its not obvious we are Muslims.

filthy - Someone also put gay free zone stickers in the area I live. This is the one aspect of Islam that does really worry me. I have fairly liberal Muslim friends who say that the Iman at both the two nearest mosques often say anti gay stuff in their sermons.

People seem happy to challenge Christians who are anti gay, but more reluctant to challenge Muslims who area nti gay. I think it is because most people who will chalenge anti gay stuff are left wing. Most - although I know not all - left wingers don't have much time for Christianity. But most don't want to appear racist by criticising Muslims who are being anti gay.

And yes I do know not all Muslims are anti gay and that there are gay Muslims. But anti gay beliefs do seem to be common amongst Muslims.

lesley33

People are now programmed not to speak out against muslims. I was reading a thread a few weeks back about a lady who didnt want her DD or DS to go round to a Muslim friends house but didnt mind them playing at school and all she got was abuse and namecalling
I didnt find the thread offensive (some replys I found offensive and imature) but it was deleted as I was reading it

I think that says it

I actually think there is a lot of anti muslim feeling around. But mumnet is dominated by more liberal people who challenge anything they might see as anti Muslim.

I don't have a problem with people being challenged where they are making generalisations or being racist. But sometimes when people talk about specific situations, they are talking about a much more nuanced and complex situation that may be partly about religion, but isn't racist - although i didn't read the thread you mention.

LadyoftheManor - Just to say as well that although research doesn't clearly demonstrate whether same sex attraction is due to genetic or environmental circumstances, it does all agree that same sex and opposite sex attraction is established from a very very young age. So really whatever the cause, it is kind of immaterial as it is clear that teenagers and adults, don't "choose" to be attracted to same sex, they just are.

Although personally, where people have a choice because they are bisexual, I see no problem at all with people choosing to be with a same sex partner.

Lesley33 - it's pointless trying to debate certain political issues on here, that's why most people don't bother anymore.

I know - and I agree its probably a waste of time trying to influence LadyoftheManor. But other people, not just posting, do read threads - and I hope some of them are more thoughtful.