To think those who try to justify the Norwegian bomber are not even as bad as a racist just sick.

[maypole1]

Turned on the radio today, and can't believe how people are trying to put this on the Muslims and justify the crazy bomber.

And even suggesting we should listen to what he has to say, I just wonder why these same people were calling for us to listen to Osama after 9/11

Because by the same logic he might have had a message (god help us)

And I wonder if any of these net mums just have the balls to say I am a racist and what, because I have more respect for that person than someone who uses immigration as a fig leaf for their racism.

Just before we start if any one uses the term English please be clear whom you are talking about

Any one who is born here

Or any one who is white

Also the term immigrant means someone who is in the country legally and can't claim any benefits and who has to work

Asylum seeker is different

Just want to be clear

Posieparker, I'd now think you should go to bed.

You are talking inutterable shite.
You make DaftPunk look liberal at the moment, and I was always a fan of yours. You are coming across as daft.

I think people speaking welsh in wales (therein is the clue) is just that, people who are native welsh, speaking their native language. Jeez, you have no idea! You really can't just read a few books and decide on your standpoint and then stick there ad nauseum. Well, you can...but you look bloody daft!

You just blew any kudos you ever had, you daft sod.

Whoa....I was repeating the idiocy not coming up with it. I was saying that it's not the same, being sarcastic, a previous poster said that Welsh people speka Welsh!! I think it's fair that people speak their own language in their own country!!

Perhaps read the context of the post.

PosieParker, might I suggest....Germany, Italy, Spain, America, Canada (you know all the countries where Muslims live) unless of course you are assuming that Muslims only live in the Middle East and North Africa..in which case where do the Christians fit in there?

I take it you never ever order in a meal from somewhere other than Harry Ramsdens? No Chinese/Indian/Turkish take aways? Do you not support and therefore encourage immigration by making use of these establishments? Do you complain when in a Chinese restaurant/Turkish take away etc that the staff may communicate to one another in a language other than English?

Are Welsh people permitted to speak Welsh in "your" part of England or will that cause offence-because last time I checked Wales was part of the United Kingdom...and like it or not so are lots of other people of which English isn't their first language.

Posie, is "Britain" and therefore the countries that make it up not "part of their own country"? Gaelic and Welsh out of the question should either be visiting, say Glasgow?

OK that makes sense, Posie.
But to behonest, The most fiestiest kick ass woman I know? A Muslim who wears a veil and forbids any alcohol in the house, even though her husband wants her to concede. From here, I think a strong Muslim Wife is the same as a strong wife anywhere. My friend decided to wear the headdress, my friend has decided on a total alcohol ban.

I envy her conviction in all honesty. Islam is not our enemy. Like Catholics in the days of the IRA weren't.

I'ts just twats far as I can see.

I'm not sure Muslims per se are our enemy, but Islam is not a religion I would like to see grow too much more. I am happy (ish) with religion is small pockets but State and mass religion is to be feared. Religion can and does control people in a way that only true fear of violence can.

Lady.... Are you really saying that America, Italy, Spain are better places to live for women. Funny. Canada and Germany I cannot possibly comment as I wouldn't know. But Italy? America where poor women who find themselves pregnant cannot afford to abort and cannot afford to be on welfare, where capital punishment is alive and well? Bible belt?

TBH I'm not sure whether you're a bit thick or massively obtuse. A Chinese take away with Chinese people is expected, your local green grocers stocking mainly Chinese vegetables, serving mainly Chinese people and speaking Cantonese would be less expected especially if before it was much more British friendly. Plus AGAIN you are talking race/nationality and not religion. Religion which is homophobic generally, religion that has lesser roles for women, religion where (in Islam) women are protectors of men's virtue.....the list goes on.

Anyone is allowed to speak their own language wherever they like, but they have to expect if that language excludes (like in the Green grocers) the host nation's population that it will cause conflict and ill feeling. Noone likes to be left out especially in their own home/country. I am a very proud English woman, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But if I did I would want to live there, want to be part of it and want to be accepted.....not create a mini England where I could forget the benefits of the freedom I assume I longed for. Whether that be freedom from violence, freedom from oppression or freedom from poverty.

But again you are drawing me into to talking about race, when my beef is believe/religion. British Muslims do exist, I can only assume their lives were particularly lacking when they decided to convert.

And for the record, I have had mail from Muslim men telling me that as I'm white I must be a whore with loads of children from different fathers and they all like to fuck white girls before settling for a virginal modest gift from Allah. So if you assume that the hatred fro the West is reserved for stories in the tabloids, think again.

Ah Posie, so your problem is with fundamentalist Muslims and not all Muslims? Well I have a problem with fundamentalism...this doesn't mean I accuse all Muslims of crimes they haven't committed any more than I accuse Christians for the actions of the fundamentals who kill abortion doctors.

I can't see how religion is related to your cultural exclusion argument..yet you deny bringing cultural difference into it.

Oh dear posie you last statement was a bit

Why would
their lives be lacking

To be honest I worry about your life And its lacking at this moment more than them

So random Muslim men wrote you "mail"? Men from a cultural you deny has anything to do with you, and they always "ignore you" and "leave you out" actually took time to write you a letter?

cultural viewpoint*

I know I think she has been on the sherry

Some random Muslim guy wrote her only a moment agao she was saying mum slims don't wAnt to talk to her

And yet another thread becomes Posie's Misguided Musings on Muslims. Again.

For those unfamiliar with Posie's MO, she used to start about one anti-Muslim thread a week. It was like an especially tedious fixation.

I thought you'd sworn off MN forever?

Posie - why are you getting mail from men?

If you are so against religion, why are you sending your children to a catholic school?

have you read the history of the Catholic religion? And yes I can comment on this, as I attended a Catholic school.

Actually I joined an anti BNP group on facebook they had also joined the group.

Catholic school for my children as there were no other places.,

GAC....Do you live in a divided city? With divided playgrounds? I do. I didn't start anti Muslim threads every week. Possibly two in my time on MN that were discussing a private Muslim school in Bristol with 5 yr olds having hijab as part of the uniform and the rise in hijabs on young women, which were anti girls wearing hijabs, not anti Muslim.

As feminist I just can't stomach all the anti women crap in Islam. If other religions were growing so visibly or any other prescriptive group I would be starting threads about them. Too much hand ringing around Islam in my mind, we should be able to discuss these issues one by one, and there are countless without being accused of being anti Muslim.

I'm not sure what nationality you are GAC or religion but if you're white take a walk down Stapleton Road in Bristol at 10pm and see if you feel safe, actually try 3pm.

positparker I think you means ISLAM represents a belief system and way of life - and that is true, but then it is true for ANY religion. Christians have a way of life, Jews have a way of life, Hindus have a way of life......tell me ONE religion that doesn't give you a set of rules and regulations to go by??

Next, may I ask WHY you are sending your children to a Catholic school when you hate religion? Double standards? If I didn't want my children to go to a faith school, and I would try damn hard to get them into another school - even if it meant moving to another location. You obviously don't care enough to be motivated to do something. OR you actually don't mind your children going to a Christian school, but actually DO hate only Muslims and Islam. I am thinking the latter.

Now I would like to talk to you about these "mails" you've been receiving from Muslim men. Tell me, do you think perverts are restricted to being Muslim? I can only imagine what kind of site you went on and left your email to encourage perverts to contact you and make comments like that. EVERY RACE AND CULTURE AND RELIGION HAS PERVS WITHIN IT....WHEN YOU GO HUNTING FOR THAT KIND OF ATTENTION, THEN IT IS NATURAL YOU WILL RECEIVE IT.

Finally, you said As feminist I just can't stomach all the anti women crap in Islam....please elaborate. My religion has always taught me to educate myself and better myself. My father never restricted my mother from doing anything, and I was never restricted from doing anything. I run my household with MY rules, with healthy input from my DH too. My DH doesn't order me around - he lets me get on with it.
Please tell me WHERE in ISLAM there is this anti woman crap? When the prophet of our religion himself married a woman who was a business woman and ran her own business, and whom he never stopped from working even after marriage - and this was over 1000 years ago?

I think you are confusing ISLAM with CULTURE....these are two completely different things.

If there was "anti-woman" crap in Islam, then this Muslim Women Power List would never have been compiled: Do these women look oppressed to you? Some of them are pretty old - probably married and with husbands - do you think they oppress them?

Posie FFS. Your kids are in a Catholic school. What about all 'the anti-women crap' in Catholicism??

I am hiding this thread now because I truly can't cope with your vitriolic, muddled thinking. Have my first ever

Koran:

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Nuff Said?

I haven't experienced rudeness in any shops owned by muslims, I just get chatting & make friends. I find older men (including muslims of course) too polite to just push in front of me; and often they let me get served first. I've sat in the staffroom when colleagues have been chatting in their language; if I feel uncomfortable I make a joke about it so they laugh & chat in english.
Posie - The key to mixing with anyone is to be friendly, smile & if they don't want to know that's their loss. I don't get why you are bothered about your neighbours anyway - I know mine but rarely socialise as I have my own friends, family & job to worry about. Same with everyone I know.
If you are getting weird mail from any man then take it to the police.
The clothes is issue is subjective - what one person thinks is acceptable is different to what others will accept. Re: muslims; for eg I know one english muslim girl who wears a headscarf & long sleeves with her work uniform. However, a local doctor's wife who wears a burkha probably thinks this girl is positively undressed.

Personally I wouldn't go out in a strappy vest top except on the beach. Men & women of all cultures judge people who 'put themselves out there' by being half undressed. Men are naturally conditioned to stare at women, especially if any flesh is on show. In the UK we can dress as we like - but don't expect to not get judged; it's just human.
(Not sure how this all links back to the atrocities in Norway...??)

Vibrating, I think you'll find he didn't have sexual relations with Alesha.

I did not say people shouldn't speak their own language in a shop. Of course people should speak whatever language they want. But if you live in an area where the majority of people seem to speak Urdu or Mirpuri (or any other language) in shops (I say seem as I haven't actually done research) the it is much harder to get to know people locally. It would be the same if people were speaking Welsh.

Whereas if I go into a shop and I can understand what peopel are saying there are sometimes opportunities to join in the conversation and get to know people better. I would never just walk up to people speaking a language I don't undferstand and start chatting to them in English. And thats because I can't judge whether it is appropriate to do this.

The people chatting away could be talking about really intense subjects e.g. the death of someone close to them. So for me to suddenly go up and say oh did you see what the council are doing to the park for example - would be extremely crass.

I am not blaming people for talking a different language to English. That is their right. But of course it has an effect on whether I feel part of the community or not. It is not about being made to feel welcome or unwelcome - it is about feeling part of things locally.

Incidentally, Glaswegians have never spoken Gaelic as a rule. Scottish Gaelic has always been confined to the Highlands.

"Personally I wouldn't go out in a strappy vest top except on the beach. Men & women of all cultures judge people who 'put themselves out there' by being half undressed. Men are naturally conditioned to stare at women, especially if any flesh is on show."

I think most people who are not Muslim would disagree that wearing a strappy vest top is half undressed. You are entitled to your views - but what I do object to is the belief that most people think like this, when it is actually a minority view.