To think those who try to justify the Norwegian bomber are not even as bad as a racist just sick.

[maypole1]

Turned on the radio today, and can't believe how people are trying to put this on the Muslims and justify the crazy bomber.

And even suggesting we should listen to what he has to say, I just wonder why these same people were calling for us to listen to Osama after 9/11

Because by the same logic he might have had a message (god help us)

And I wonder if any of these net mums just have the balls to say I am a racist and what, because I have more respect for that person than someone who uses immigration as a fig leaf for their racism.

Just before we start if any one uses the term English please be clear whom you are talking about

Any one who is born here

Or any one who is white

Also the term immigrant means someone who is in the country legally and can't claim any benefits and who has to work

Asylum seeker is different

Just want to be clear

"Did you know that no one can come into the country anymore unless they can speak English?"

Thats not true and I am glad it is not true. Nobody can become a British citizen unless they demonstrate they can speak a certain level of English. But of course people can live here as asylum seekers, on visas (granted for a number of reasons) and on holiday, without beinga ble to speak a word of English. And that is as it should be.

But its far easier I guess to make generalisations that hide the truth.

Dr Taj Hargee; Chair of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford. Says on Jeremy Vine, Muslims more than anyone want to come to Britian and not mix, they want to be segregated, we should be opposed to people coming here without some level of English.

Lesley33 - I understand what you're saying, but unfortunately it goes a bit further than a bit of rudeness in shops.
In certain areas of London residents had to put up with 'Gay Free Zone'
stickers being put up all over the place ( a Muslim man received a £100 fine ) and now the same area has 'Sharia controlled zone' stickers everywhere ( no drinking, smoking, gambling etc ) I know it's Muslim extremists causing the trouble but it's happening and it must be very intimidating for the residents.

Filthy I don't think anyone is allowed to mention the fact the Islam stands firmly against homosexuality and as a particularly inflexible religion this is unlikely to change.

The Islamic Society of North America:

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi of the ISNA said: "Homosexuality is a moral disorder. It is a moral disease, a sin and corruption... No person is born homosexual, just like no one is born a thief, a liar or murderer. People acquire these evil habits due to a lack of proper guidance and education.""

"There are many reasons why it is forbidden in Islam. Homosexuality is dangerous for the health of the individuals and for the society. It is a main cause of one of the most harmful and fatal diseases. It is disgraceful for both men and women. It degrades a person. Islam teaches that men should be men and women should be women. Homosexuality deprives a man of his manhood and a woman of her womanhood. It is the most un-natural way of life. Homosexuality leads to the destruction of family life."

British Muslims hold more conservative opinions towards homosexual acts, abortion, viewing pornography, suicide and sex outside marriage than European Muslims, polling markedly lower when asked if they believed these things were morally acceptable.

The most dramatic contrast was found in attitudes towards homosexuality. None of the 500 British Muslims interviewed believed that homosexual acts were morally acceptable.

So posters are you homophobic?

Posie - your children go to a Catholic School. As far as I am aware, the Catholic Church is not known for its liberal attitude to homsexuality.

A lot of christians & atheists are just as homophobic. I have some gay colleagues, i like them as people, am fine with gay couples & civil partnerships. Do feel discomfort at gay couples kissing etc in soaps - unsure why but that's my problem & i can switch it off. Again - we all have our prejudices, that's fine - it's good to learn to get over them - but this thread is so off topic now it's daft!

Yes they often talk about homosexuality in Catholic primary schools, the dss often come home and it's anal sex this, anal sex that . Anyway I counter act any stupid attitudes they may come across at home. The only child at that age I know who says homophobic nonsense like 'gay' 'lezzer' is at a secular school.

And I am not part of the Catholic Church, I took the decision very seriously when I allowed my dcs to go to that school and researched the syllabus. I would be straight to the LEA if I thought any prejudices attitudes were communicated.

prejudiced

Kallista....We all have our prejudices and that's fine? wtf? This is not belief this is how people are. Although I knew that certain posters would find this difficult to answer.

My DH and I were only saying the other night that prejudice against homosexuality is about what people do in bed.....which is weird as I have neighbours in their sixties and never think 'I wonder if John is taking Janet up the arse tonight!' seems like many people are far too bothered about what gay people do in bed.

Sigh..i'm crap at explaining things tbh.
It's not really fine if people are prejudiced; it's just i'm so used to hearing a whole variety of prejudices etc that i've got to the point of ignoring it rather than getting het up debating with people who won't ever change their opinions.
Re: sex on tv - ok, i just switch off Eastie when christian kisses syed. Because christian used to be macho but the writers changed his character when he got with syed. Now he's too soppy!
I don't mind what other gay characters do, & what people do in their sex life in RL is up to them.

I don't want to see anyone kiss on TV tbh, hate sex scenes too.

ThePosieParker Thu 28-Jul-11 12:14:36
Dr Taj Hargee; Chair of the Muslim Educational Centre of Oxford. Says on Jeremy Vine, Muslims more than anyone want to come to Britian and not mix, they want to be segregated, we should be opposed to people coming here without some level of English.

Posie, when you say "Muslims come to Britain"...where are you implying they "come from"? I'm confused between your assumption of religion and assumption of nationality.

I'd also like to know if you think the Catholic Church are welcoming to the idea of homosexuality, or the other main sects of Christianity for that matter...? Or is it just Islam that you think has a problem with it...or does that just suit your argument better?

I agree with Posie in that my DC are at Catholic school and nothing has ever been mentioned about homosexuality (nor was it lambasted when I went through the Catholic school system years and years ago).

I don't agree about the whole anti-homosexuality is just because of what they do in bed argument. Isn't religion just as personal and intimate a path as sexuality in most ways? The way we choose to worship/not worship is just another facet of us, as is our sexuality.
So disliking Islam as a religion is just as shortsighted as being homophobic in my book.

People dislike/discriminate against others when they fear them. When they have no empathy or just general ignorance about how they live their lives.

This broad brush approach is very parochial and immature, just shows a lack of education, not a surfeit of it imo. You can't judge a whole creed based on a street ful of families, nor a city full for that matter.

I'm beginning to see a pattern in your posts LOTM, you don't read other people's posts as a whole just in part.

Now when we're discussing language it's pretty obvious I'm not talking about British nationals, born here. And when I'm talking about segregated communities, further segregated by language, I am talking about Muslim religion in addition to CULTURE. This is not a difficult concept surely.

No homosexuality is not a choice or a belief system, it neither persecutes or punishes women or relies upon a belief system of control passed down from man to man for 100s of years. Religion is a choice, it's a method of control or rules. Being opposed to something damaging and used for war and hatred is not the same as being prejudiced against someone who likes sex and love with someone of the same gender.

Lissie....Why would anyone be anti homosexual?

But sometimes you don't choose your religion, you're born into it and that is the way you are raised. Of course you can then choose to leave that path. I accept your sexuality is somewhat different in that respect.

I don't know why anyone would be anti-homosexual tbh. Well, I suppose I do. It is much the same as my Gran was before she died, she was extremely racist, and very vocal about it. She was just very ignorant and fearful
(albeit very intelligent), in her later years she actually changed her views.

People don't like what they don't understand, what is different.

But you don't have to be homophobic you could actually be intelligent to think that if God was truly benevolent she would not be homophobic, should your intellect still allow to believe in God at all.

You can be intelligent and empathetic as well.

I know very clever, well read people with all sorts of strange views on things that I find wierd and sometimes abhorrent.

I just think you have to see that just as there are varying levels of Catholicism (for example) there are varying levels of Islam and not all women are victims of Islam, not in the least. The "pure" teachings of Islam are wonderful, helping neighbours/family, sharing food and wealth, treating all strangers as family if they visit you, for example, a very welcoming and accepting religion.

The problem always lies in how people interpret religion and choose to make it their own I think.

It hasn't been proven that it isn't a choice or belief system. Just because you're saying otherwise doesn't make it factual.

I haven't caught up with this thread properly but LOTM..

Are you saying that homosexuality is a choice?

I'm saying that it hasn't been proven either way...and there isn't enough evidence on either side (science rejecting religion and religion rejecting science) for one to over rule the other.

Can't say I care enough as this was a bit of a tangent.

Yes you're right,it is a tangent from the OP.

I would say though that DS2 is Gay and told us in March this year.

He is 16.

We always sort of thought he would be and it's not a 'choice' but it is just what/who he is.

I've not meet anyone gay or bi who's 'chosen' their sexuality. They just are what they are. Unless they feel pressured or intimidated into hiding their sexuality -then they may choose to temporarily pretend to be straight.
I can think of several gay men for example who have felt they had to hide their sexuality either from everyone or just from their original friends & family. Some from the Phillippines (strict Catholics) & some English guys either originally from rough estates where being gay meant a kicking, or from very straight-laced families who would disown them for coming out.
Also some gay people are in denial of their sexuality for other complex reasons & take a long time to come to terms with it so they don't like to come out until that happens.

If various religions & cultures could accept everyone as they are then it wouldn't be so difficult.