To feel upset about sil not breastfeeding?

[wheelygirl]

hi, new here so pls be gentle!

My dh's brother and his wife had a baby boy four days ago. She said she had a lovely birth and was out of hospital the next day.

We visited them yesterday at home and sil was bottle feeding. Now, I don't give a shit how people feed their children, I don't have any kids (am pg)But I got quite upset because her ds kept trying to breastfeed from her. He was refusing the bottle and kept nuzzling into her chest. Her breasts were leaking as well and she told me she was hand expressing and chucking it away. I asked her why she didnt give it to her ds and she told me that she doesn't want him to get used to breast milk. He had the formula milk then vomited it back up five minutes later. He was really crying and it made me feel awful when he was turning his head to her breast and opening his mouth.

She then went on to tell me that he hasn't even had colostrum because it was too much of a faff to get him to latch on. Colostrum is the important stuff right?

Why do I feel so upset about this? I felt her ds was doing something so instinctive and she should at least have tried to breastfeed. I understand that some women have great difficulty breastfeeding and formula is a more than adequate alternative but at least try and do it.

Aibu?

because the previous post says 'decreases the risk' and you are trying to suggest that I am saying that it eliminates the risk. If I thought that, then why would I have said 'decreases the risk' in my previous post?

I've seen tiktok get a bit annoyed when people misinterpret what she is saying too... I think fewer people just try to twist her words at this stage because they know what they'll get! :)

i dont see where i said that you were saying it eliminates that risk, i was just saying that many experience the opposite.

and when i say not the best, i mean that 'hypothetically' nutritionally bmilk is always going to be the best, but this wasnt a hypothetical situation, its real life, and it wasnt available.

i have seen that as bubbley, but somehow she comes across differently and less aggressively.

maybe partly as she is an older/longer standing poster? who knows, but her posts certainly read differently to many, have a look at how she posts, ask her how she does it, get her to write on how to promote bfeeding in a non aggressive manner

whatever, you just seem to be a frequent poster in these discussions, that in itself can get some peoples backs up! you know what forums are like.

and now i am away to eat a pretend ice cream supplied by ds4, the baby is asleep so we have some time to play :)

Apart from the silly " lost cause" statement and the use of studies when people have just told of their experiences regarding bf and PND I haven't found bubbles posts to be over judgemental towards ff, I think thre have been far pushier ruder posters earlier on in thread and on other threads that have been down right rude to ff mothers and then dissapeared

You're right Lovesicecream. And yes bubbley - I've seen Tiktok get annoyed too. There are a couple of posters (won't name names) who do seem to be very obstructive about BFing which must be very difficult not to react to.
FWIW bubbley, I'm sorry I spouted out about having an extreme opinion. There's nothing wrong at all about being knowledgable about something.
I think I should learn to hide these threads straight away rather than get involved in a debate which goes round and round in circles.

Coming to this a bit late :)

Thanks for the nice things said about how I post, 4madboys, but I have been called patronising, extremist, aggressive and militant many times on mumsnet by some of the posters here on this thread, too.

Obviously, I plead innocent to all those charges!

I think is is reasonable for someone close to a baby (this is the OP's neice, after all) and also pregnant and looking forward to breastfeeding herself to have these feelings on seeing a baby remaining uncomforted and in distress. If this baby was being breastfed, the 'pass the parcel scene' of everyone having a go at feeding would not happen, and the baby's physical and emotional 'overtures' to his mother would be responded to.

It's not reasonable to judge the mother because i) she has the right to use her body how she wishes and ii) she may not have been given the opportunity to understand the needs of a newborn

I wish that everyone who formula feeds, for whatever reason, was helped to appreciate that some of the 'advantages' of formula feeding are actually drawbacks, and then they would be able to make a decision on full information. They would still have the right to decide, of course, and the right to support whatever their decision.

But they would at least not be under the misapprehension that (as one poster said) 'it's only food' and that therefore we should not be bothered one way or the other - which is a notion that is so, so, wrong.

Feeding, however it's done, bottle or breast, is part of the 'territory' where early relationships develop. It's not the only part, but it's an important part....and it can be done (bottle or breast) in ways which enhance the baby's experiences, and ways which do not. The baby does not have a choice, either, and this makes the balance of power skewed towards the mother - who can decide to redress it and equalise it, by feeding in a way that acknowledges the baby's normal, healthy needs for responsiveness, gentleness, contact and peaceful, consistent, loving interaction.

If you see that not happening, why would you not be sad for the baby who's missing out?

tiktok I know you and I have have come from opposing ends of this discussion before in a very polite way but if you are going to refer to the orginal post then to be fair the op has no idea how the mother acknowledges the babys normal healthy needs and responses usually. It was her first visit there, she was there for a number of hours maybe, once, and the whole situation sounds quite stressful regardless of how the baby was being fed.

It's only food - that'll be me then. I say it regularly

Although in this case I did go on to say that I'd feel saddened if I was the OP.

wrigglesrock - there is no 'usually' for a four day old baby that should mean we are not in the least bothered by the effect of the here and now , which was actually taking place over a few hours. If this mother goes on to care for her baby in a different way, then fine....the baby will recover from the stressful experience she describes. If this happens frequently, or if the baby has his needs unresponded to routinely, then he won't.

Just as anyone here (I hope) would feel sad for a baby or small child being treated in a way we recognised was not 'right' for them at that time, even if we can appreciate this may not happen all the time.

Jenai - it's not 'only food'. I dont care if you say it regularly or not - it's still not true :)

tiktok as always you have come and posted a kind, considerate and thoughtful post!

i have seen you called militant etc etc, but have never seen you post that way myself! you post calmly and clearly, not always concicely but you are always thoughtful towards others and that shows in your posts :)

i agree btw about passing a baby round, i alwasy hate the pass the new baby round, NO leave it with its mother where it belongs, i have alwasy kept mine very close to me and even now my younger two have been bottle fed, its alwasy been done by myself or occasionally my partner, never anyone else.

I feel the same way tiktok when I read posts by breastfeeding mums, who are unhappy and are feeding their babies crying or in pain or does that not adversely affect the baby?

Exactly Wiggles.

Would just like to add also all babies route(sp?) around bf/ff. Mine were all bf at that age and would do it even after a feed.

Would like to add further that some babies are also v sicky in the early days as they get into a routine.Dtwin1 was a nightmare as he golloped far too quick(and still does 7 years later).

So sorry as countless others have said there was absolutely no need for the op's judgy panys and I oh so wish I could be a fly on her wall in the early days after she's given birth.

Yes, all babies root when they want the food/comfort of the breast - but I think many people would find it upsetting to see that and then the baby not comforted.

Hopefully it was just a one off due to the pressure of having so many people around and mum and baby will get back on track. It would have upset me though, same as seeing babies crying in prams/carseats upsets me. As someone else has mentioned, we all make judgements in those kind of situations - the important thing is to be kind and keep our thoughts to ourselves.

Ta, 4madboys - and I take on board the concise thing. Sometimes you can't be 'concise' 'cos to be not concise can sound abrupt....that's my excuse, anyway :)

wiggles - it's a valid question, but there's not an easy answer. Does the baby know his mother is in pain? No. Does the baby recognise when his mother cannot react/respond to him (which might be because she is in deep distress/constant pain)? Yes. This can affect reciprocity (google it - it's to do with attachment theory). I think this sometimes explains why babies are reported to be 'much happier when I switched to formula feeding' especially if the mother is pain-free as well.

So, if a mother was breastfeeding and unable, consistently, to develop that relationship with her baby because she was submerged in her own sorrows, then you could argue that a switch to formula feeding would be 'better' for the baby....but it would only be 'better' in that one respect (there are other respects - health, convenience, finance, the mother's own preference and confidence) so you would need to decide individually.

Some babies are protected from their mother's inability to attach because they have fathers who are involved and loving and responsive. Some mothers still manage to keep their heads above water, and even though they are upset, they are not actually depressed and can still relate and respond to their babies - and would be even more upset if they used formula.

Not concise again, I see, but I think I needed to put that in :)

How about calling a halt to the 'just you wait until it's your turn' posts to the OP?

One might even think they will be pleased if she has a hard time in the early days.....

'Fly on the wall', indeed :( :(

So the genral view is

If you want to breastfeed, breastfeed.

If you want to Formula feed do it, you know you are doing what is right by you, your baby and your family regardless if people judge you for doing it

Simples

Everyone just does what they believe is the best for them, their baby and their family.

End of

Aren't any of the benefits of breastfeeding negated by the switch to HappyMeals at 6 months? :o

No, a crap diet later doesn't negate anything. Any breastmilk is a benefit for the baby.

I totally agree with tiktok on the whole pass the parcel with ff. I mix fed for the second month and then moved totally to ff at 8 weeks. DD and I found our own way of making ff suit her needs (constant snacking, no feeding schedule at all, a bottle constantly on the go) and we were fine. DD even refused to let anyone bar me or very occasionally dh feed her with a bottle which meant that the feeding relationship remained between mother and baby. Annoyed MIL no end too..hehe.
I feel sad sometime when I see pictures of newborn on facebook being bottle fed by all and sundry not because of the formula vs breastmilk thing but because milk to baby should be a mother thing whether you do it 'natural' or 'with a little twentieth century help'.

Sorry I think being a fly on the wall is perfectly justified.

I think far too many mothers judge away about things they have no experience of-and then they experience things for themselves.

Most sensible people keep their thoughts quietly to themselves they don't start a rather nasty judgy thread on a national parenting forum.

I've been appalled at some of the comments on this thread which have been totally dreadful and are far more than me simply thinking I'd like to see the op report back after she's had a go at mothering herself.

I also have to take issue with the crappy diet later issue.

Sorry if you feed your children on too much fat and crap all the bfing in the world isn't going to protect her from bad health and obesity.

But the baby is probably only held by somone else for the odd feed. The parents do all the night feeds and most the day feeds.

My MIL feed my baby and i havent got a problem with it. My kids have slept there every Saturday from being babies and they are 9, 7 and 3.

It ridiculous to say i have any less of a bond with them. They have a fantastic bond with grandma, dad and me.

Fifi, no one is saying you have not got any less of a bond with your children. You almost certainly, like most people, were in a situation whereby most of your babies' feeds were given by you, with occasional switching to maybe one (or two) other people.

That is highly unlikely to have any 'bad bonding' effects.