To feel upset about sil not breastfeeding?

[wheelygirl]

hi, new here so pls be gentle!

My dh's brother and his wife had a baby boy four days ago. She said she had a lovely birth and was out of hospital the next day.

We visited them yesterday at home and sil was bottle feeding. Now, I don't give a shit how people feed their children, I don't have any kids (am pg)But I got quite upset because her ds kept trying to breastfeed from her. He was refusing the bottle and kept nuzzling into her chest. Her breasts were leaking as well and she told me she was hand expressing and chucking it away. I asked her why she didnt give it to her ds and she told me that she doesn't want him to get used to breast milk. He had the formula milk then vomited it back up five minutes later. He was really crying and it made me feel awful when he was turning his head to her breast and opening his mouth.

She then went on to tell me that he hasn't even had colostrum because it was too much of a faff to get him to latch on. Colostrum is the important stuff right?

Why do I feel so upset about this? I felt her ds was doing something so instinctive and she should at least have tried to breastfeed. I understand that some women have great difficulty breastfeeding and formula is a more than adequate alternative but at least try and do it.

Aibu?

Pomme your forgettingselfish and that we don't love our babies as much!

bubbley on the last p p23 you clearly said it was a WASTE to try and force someone to bfeed.

and i had post natal psychosis CAUSED by bfeeding as my prolactin levels rocketed to a riddiculous level causing my to to have hallucinations and go mad and spend time in a psych ward! that helped my bond with my ds4....

my levels were so high and the drs were so alarmed i had an emergeancy mri to look for a tumour on my pituitary gland, there wasnt one, thankfully.

the drs dont know why my levels did what they did, but stopping bfeeding and they started to decline, tho i produced milk for along long timem, despite doing everything to help dry up my milk.

i went on to have another child, they could see no reason for it to happen again so i bfed to begin with but as with all five of my children i had massive oversupply issues (and i know ALL the advice on what to do) nothing worked to help it.

i bfed ds1 for 18mth, ds2 for almost 4 yrs, ds3 for 3 and a bit years, then had to stop at about 4mths with ds4 and CHOSE to stop with dd at 3mths, it wasnt worth the risk of ending up that ill again, so yes breast MILK is best, but what is best for baby ultimately is a HEALTHY mother who can look after ALL her children and be well. battling to bfeed when it clearly wasnt working, was exhausting and i run the risk of getting so ill again was not BEST for my baby.

you can always say that breast milk is best nutritionally but its not just about nutrition, parenting is much much more than nutrition and as my kids get older it is quite clear to see that bfeeding is really NOT the be all and the end all, what is important is love and nurturing and good parenting, something that can be done whilst formula feeding!

Purely looking at the OP here, yes that must have been very upsetting to see a baby naturally wanting the closeness and feed from its Mother and it being refused, and I can understand your distress and lack of understanding of her motives for giving up 'so easily'.

Perhaps she is having difficulty bonding who knows, perhaps she decided long ago that she wouldn't take to breastfeeding and that's that, - we don't know that either. Hopefully she will see her HV very soon who will pick up on and help her with any problems she may be having.

Just an anecdote if I may, I have a friend who has 5 children, couldn't breastfeed any of them, not due to a physical problem but the thought and sensation literally made her heave, - strange but true - and she is a wonderful mother by the way

Agree with every word soverylucky wrote in her last post.
I BFed my older 3 and am now feeding my fourth.
When dc4 is a bit older, I intend training as a BF councillor. I am one of those who is passionate about breastfeeding, and would like to help others to have the generally good experience that I have had.
It doesn't help anyone at all to make them feel bad about ffing. In this country, it is a choice they have the right to make.
Like I said before, put your energies into helping the new mothers who desperately want to feed their babies but for whatever reason struggle, and if they find they cannot BFeed at all (and it does happen) then help them to move onto formula without feeling guilty.

"Surely all any study can do is to show that there are statistically fewer instances of PND in breastfeeding mothers? What they can not do is show that breastfeeding would have the same effect on every mother.
"

Well that's why all I said was - there are studies that show that it decreases the risk of PND. not that it guarantees protection for every woman who bf or that every woman who doesn't bf will get PND - I have clarified that several time so I can only assume that people are deliberately misunderstanding me.

"This does not mean that women who don't bf don't relese oxitocin and can't bond just as well"

Haven't said that either.

razzle, if you choose to interpret it that way then it is up to you. I haven't used the term 'waste' except in response to someone else's use of it. I have said several times that it was wrong of them to treat you like that.

I did not use the word waste directly in relation to you - it was you who chose to interpret saying that resources could be better used elsewhere as saying that they were wasted on you. Do you think it was a good use of resources trying to force you to bf? I thought you wanted them to leave you alone....

yes it can decrease the risk, but its quite clear from post on here, my own experience and that of others i know that often bfeeding can CAUSE pnd or mental illness, or certainly be a large contributory factor!

you often bang on and on about bfeeding, great you like it, you want others to do so, i like it to, i loved bfeeding my eldest 3, but i have also loved bottle feeding my younger two.

the thing with bfeeding is its not clear cut, other than nutritionally, there are many reasons why women cant, or dont bfeed, offer support to those that need/want it, but you do bang on about it a LOT on mn and have from what i can see built up and anitpathy towards yourself even from those who are pro bfeeding, take a leaf from tiktok, she managed to promote bfeeding without seeming sanctimonious and annoying.

Once agin, saying that on a population level BF reduces the risk of something does not dismiss people who have had the opposite experience. All your anecdotes are valid, I am not saying that you are lying - I am just saying that PND has been shown to be less likely in people who bf. That's it.

Your in for a rude awakening when your baby is born if you think everything comes completely naturally regarding comforting a crying baby. It's a massive learning curve and if there were 10 people in her house when her baby is only 4 days old then perhaps she was feeling very overwhelmed! It sounds to me from your original post that it has less to do with bf/ff and more to do with the fact that you think she was being a crap mother in general! Think about this post when your baby is 4 days old and imagine how you'd feel if someone wrote the same thing about you!

Your in for a rude awakening when your baby is born if you think everything comes completely naturally regarding comforting a crying baby. It's a massive learning curve and if there were 10 people in her house when her baby is only 4 days old then perhaps she was feeling very overwhelmed! It sounds to me from your original post that it has less to do with bf/ff and more to do with the fact that you think she was being a crap mother in general! Think about this post when your baby is 4 days old and imagine how you'd feel if someone wrote the same thing about you!

ell clearly it is a waste of time to try to force someone who doesn't want to bf into doing it! What on earth is wrong with pointing that out? Do you disagree that it would be better to leave people who have made the decision to FF alone and spend time on helping those who want to bf? Or do you think it is actually a good use of resources to bully and pressure someone into doing something that they don't want to do while women who do want to bf struggle along with no help? Surely this is just pointing out the obvious - not sure how that makes me patronising and holier than thou tbh.

there you GO bubbley you post on the last page, you quite clearly say WASTE!!

also you said about someone being a 'lost cause' etc not wanting to bfeed doesnt make someone a lost cause, how patronising and what an insensitive comment to make! that was a comment at the bottom of a previous page i think, i dont have the time or the inclination to go and find it.

like i said you come across as obsessed by bfeeding, thats great, but use that obsession in a more positive way, rather than going on about it on here maybe?

yes less likely but it still can and does happen, try acknowledging that and some of the suffering that it causes may well be a polite and kind thing to do, rather than just reiterating that bfeeding makes it less likely, that doesnt help those that HAVE suffered because of bfeeding.

Op - I'd have felt the same. But it's not your business. I suggest you read The Politics of Breastfeeding and then you won't feel so alone in your views. And best of luck with breastfeeding - it is very hard work but wroth it IMHO.

Hmmm. It's still not quite true though. That there are less instances of PND among bf mothers does not mean that for each individual mother PND is less likely if she bfs.

In terms of bonding when I gave dd a bottle at about 4 weeks I felt much more of a bonding/hormonal rush type feeling that I had in the previous month of bf which to be honest normally made me wince/feel icky.

I feel it is so individual that it is very hard to generalise these things to the extent that lots of people want to.

As so much with life, it is not black and white, it is a million shades of grey.

4madboys - yes, I've just acknowledged that I said that in response to the pp comment- not in direct reference to razzle. She was the one who used the word waste. Considering that I've said a few times now that bf doesn't guarantee anything I'm not sure why you are still trying to insist that I've said PND never happens in bf women...

I often find myself on FF/BF threads repeating the line "it's only food" and saying that in the great parenting scheme of things, bf/ff isn't such a big deal.

However YANBU OP. In your shoes I'd have felt the same.

Maybe your sil is having a hard time and didn't receive proper help with getting her ds to latch on.

I find it sad that someone can't even try getting colostrum to their newborn. Maybe they have issues and it's not their fault - in which case that's equally sad (more for the mother probably).

"IMO, in this day and age, anyone who doesn't try to breastfeed after being given all the information is a lost cause. They just won't get it (clear from several of the posts on this thread). "

there you go, how patronising and annoying is that comment? just because somone knows all the fact and doesnt want to bfeed does not make them a lost cause, it doesnt mean that they 'dont get it' i am quite sure that many people KNOW how good bfeeding is NUTRITIONALLY, i myself am one of them but still made the decision to change to formula with dd.

the thing with bfeeding is its not just about nutrition, looking after a baby and nurturing it and helping it grow is about much more than nutrition and there are many valid reasons why someone can choose not to bfeed. you can talk about how its 'best' till the cows come home but it wont change the fact that its not always convenient, not always best for the mother, the other siblings or the rest of the family and therefore not always best for the baby, from a nutritional pov it is the best, but there is more to feeding and caring for a baby than nutrition.

you went on to one poster about how bmilk would still have been best, even tho she couldnt feed her baby and talked about donated milk, in an ideal world donated bmilk would be widely available, its not, and the dairy free bmilk that her child needed even less so.

so nutritionally dairy free bmilk would have been best, but when we say something is fine, or good or best, we dont JUST mean nutritonally.

yes nutritionally bmilk is the best, but when you factor in other things its not always the 'best' and by that i mean not nutritonally but when looking at the WHOLE picture,s omething that some posters fail to do with regards to bfeeding.

Shall I use a more widely accepted example to clarify? Someone says, my granda smoked 40 a day from when he was a teenager and lived until he was 90. A few others post similar stories. Someone else points out that actually, on a population level, smokers are more likely to suffer from cancer. How exactly does that dismiss those people's anecdotes, accuse them of lying or suggest that no one who ever smokes could live until a ripe old age?

i never said you were insisting it didnt happen, but you clearly and quite rudely FAIL to acknowledge those who it does happen to and are quite rude in simply going on about the facts, when it would be polite and show some empathy to ACKNOWLEDGE what they have been through and show some sympathy, something you seem incapable of doing.

you are like a dog with a bone, you are always on there types of threads and you do GO ON, its tiring and annoying.

It makes trying to get them to bf a lost cause. There is no point. They have been given the information (how many people talk about it being shoved down their throats), they have made their decision. Why keep harassing them about it when the majority of women are actually trying to bf but are giving up before they want to due to lack of support. Why try to convince more people to try bf when we can't even support the ones who are trying?

yes fine, support those that want to do so, but imo its rude to talk about anyone as a lost cause, tho quite clearly you are as you fail to see despite MANY people (not only myself) pointing out to you that you go on relentlessly, seem patronising, condescending and annoying to the point of doing bfeeding a DISSERVICE!

Well if people didn't deliberately twist my words and argue about things I haven't said then I wouldn't have to go on so much. How many posters came on and showed sympathy towards people who posted about their PND? A handful out of hundreds who have posted here - do you want to have a go at them as well? I did actually say it was very sad that so many people felt so bad about their bf experience and that it's not fair etc. I'm pretty sure that can be interpreted as being sympathetic towards people who have struggled.

bimob that is totally uncalled for! that is hugely inflamatory and tbh i am tempted to report that post!
bubbley i didnt see you express sympathy, if you did then great, but you still repeated endlessly how it can lessen pnd, which seems insenstive esp when near some other posts on this thread.

many posters dismissed the pnd and others pulled them up on it, i saw no need to repeat them.

but i did feel the need to post to you as you do seem to go on and on about bfeeding in an overbearing manner.