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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel upset about sil not breastfeeding?

1003 replies

wheelygirl · 17/07/2011 12:39

hi, new here so pls be gentle!

My dh's brother and his wife had a baby boy four days ago. She said she had a lovely birth and was out of hospital the next day.

We visited them yesterday at home and sil was bottle feeding. Now, I don't give a shit how people feed their children, I don't have any kids (am pg)But I got quite upset because her ds kept trying to breastfeed from her. He was refusing the bottle and kept nuzzling into her chest. Her breasts were leaking as well and she told me she was hand expressing and chucking it away. I asked her why she didnt give it to her ds and she told me that she doesn't want him to get used to breast milk. He had the formula milk then vomited it back up five minutes later. He was really crying and it made me feel awful when he was turning his head to her breast and opening his mouth.

She then went on to tell me that he hasn't even had colostrum because it was too much of a faff to get him to latch on. Colostrum is the important stuff right?

Why do I feel so upset about this? I felt her ds was doing something so instinctive and she should at least have tried to breastfeed. I understand that some women have great difficulty breastfeeding and formula is a more than adequate alternative but at least try and do it.

Aibu?

OP posts:
Kladdkaka · 18/07/2011 00:22

My person story, before I go to bed, I was a very young single mum having escaped from a domestic violence situation. I had no family, no friends, no belongings. Nothing. I was also autistic, although undiagnosed at that point. There was no way I could have breast fed. For me, the sensory issues put it on a par with how you would feel if you had to put you hand into boiling fat. That's the only way I can think to describe what it's like. Everything in you screams at you NOOOOOO! To go through that several times a day for months. Don't think so.

So at ante-natal classes I was shunned. It was like I had leprosy. The midwife scared me to death because of her attitude to me. I got no help or advice from anyone on how to bottle feed. I came home from hospital to my empty of furniture flat in a taxi and set about trying to care for my baba. With no visitors except the midwife. It was the hardest time of my life; it still makes me cry today 18 years later. I'd ask the midwife about how much bottle I should be making and whether I was doing right. 'No, you should be breastfeeding' was the only input I got. She was a bitch.

Some of the stuff on this thread has been really hurtful, 'not maternal' 'bad decisions' and all that and yes it does make me defensive because it's retrospectively attacking me at what was the most vulnerable time of my life.

My opinion is that every mother here has tried to do the absolute best for her babies. That should be respected and admired and opinions and comments that pull others down are best not aired. As a wise rabbit once said "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

Night, night all.

ifancyashandy · 18/07/2011 00:23

Well, to be fair, most of them have got my goat but my post referee specifically to the one at 23:23. The same one Razzle (who it was directed at) found offensive. It's just so bloody patronising and come across with such an air of 'I know best'. Unpleasant tone.

And Startail cross?! Really? And would you have told her?

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:27

Do you mean 22.23? Where I said that she shouldn't have been forced because she wasn't interested?

lovesicecream · 18/07/2011 00:30

Actually what you said to me on p21 was " studies contradict the idea that bf contributes to PND, why are you aloud to say that it does contribute to it but I'm not aloud to say it doesn't"

If you going to argue about something at least remember what you have said

ifancyashandy · 18/07/2011 00:32

Conveniently forgetting all your other posts but yes, that was the post I was referring to. But more the 'time wasting' issue. As I said before, patronising and holier than thou. But what do you care what I think - you're happy with your choices!

Off to bed now.

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:33

Actually, this was my first post about it:

"bumbleymummy Sun 17-Jul-11 22:46:30
Actually I'm pretty sure I've read a few studies that show that BF decreases the risk of PND..."

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:36

Well clearly it is a waste of time to try to force someone who doesn't want to bf into doing it! What on earth is wrong with pointing that out? Do you disagree that it would be better to leave people who have made the decision to FF alone and spend time on helping those who want to bf? Or do you think it is actually a good use of resources to bully and pressure someone into doing something that they don't want to do while women who do want to bf struggle along with no help? Surely this is just pointing out the obvious - not sure how that makes me patronising and holier than thou tbh.

lovesicecream · 18/07/2011 00:37

Yes and at 23. 10 you decided to say what I quoted above, which you obviously didn't read in a study anywhere

razzlebathbone · 18/07/2011 00:37

You said I shouldn't have been forced because it wasted their time. Not that I shouldn't have been forced because them doing so contributed to PND of a new mother. Your consideration of the priorities speaks volumes.

Fifis25StottieCakes · 18/07/2011 00:40

Bloody hell. NO ONE IS SAYING FM IS THE EQUIVELENT OF BM. We know its not. But Formula is not poison, i have 3 perfectly healthy dd's.

I didn't want to or even have 1 try at BF my 3. I wasn't even asked if i wanted to. I can remember being on maternity with my 3rd on the FF ward whilst 2 mothers were balling as they couldnt BF and their babies screamed all night. Mine was flat out having guffed a bottle of formula with no ill effects.

I have never had PND and bonded with them all. There are plenty of woman who have said they have suffered PND due to problems BF on this thread yet its dismissed.

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:44

"All I'm doing is pointing out that there are studies that contradict the idea that bf contributes to PND. Why are you allowed to say that it does contribute to it but I'm not allowed to say that it doesn't because it might hurt your feelings?"

In response to you objecting to my first comment that I just posted. What exactly is your issue with it? You say that in your experience(ie, anecdotally) BF leads to PND - I was pointing out that there are studies that show that it can actually help prevent PND.

razzlebathbone · 18/07/2011 00:46

To be fair, I am. I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference.

No caveat for me.

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:47

Actually, you said it was a waste of time I said (in response to another mother's experience:

"there's others, like razzle, who didn't want to bf at all and yet so much time was spent on forcing her into it. The balance is all wrong..."

See...no 'waste' in there.

bumbleymummy · 18/07/2011 00:51

Saying that a study shows that BF MAY decrease the likelihood of PND is not dismissing people's experiences of having PND while bf. Good grief people - this is the same type of argument that is used about the whole health benefits of bm thing. People posting that their child was FF and was 'perfectly healthy' or had 'no ill effects' so that therefore disproves every study that says that ff babies are more likley to suffer certain illnesses.

lovesicecream · 18/07/2011 01:19

I've never said that bf leads to PND what i said was I've worked with lots of women who feel bf contributed to PND, if this is how they feel then you can't say it doesn't contribute or that they won't suffer

Also you said "studies contridict the idea that bf contributes to PND" they don't at all they say it is less likely that mothers who bf will suffer PND not that it doesn't contribute

Also like I said before my issue with it is the insensitivity of putting the first comment about what studies show when women have just finished telling you that they felt bf contributed to their PND

You may as well say well how abnormal are you these studies show your less likely to get PND ,

I feel sorry for you if your that obsessed with proving bf is so wonderfull that you can't even see how rude and insensitive that was! Also your "lost cause " comment, probably not the best wording to describe someone just because they refuse to bf

lovesicecream · 18/07/2011 01:23

And you won't hurt my feelings, I see this sort of ignorance with regards to mental health issues every day

Original poster
wheelygirl · 18/07/2011 07:40

Sorry for not coming back. Haven't had time to read through all the posts.

I think some people have got me wrong here. I am not judging her for not breastfeeding. I am just a bit sad she didn't even try. I fully understand some people really struggle, I may struggle, but I will give it a damn good go. I feel I owe it to my baby to give him or her the best start in life.

People keep going on about choice and their body, their right to not breast feed, but what choice does the baby have? The baby just has to go with whatever the mother is doing regardless of whether it is the best thing or not.

I just think that breastfeeding should be attempted and I feel really sad that my sil has a supply of breast milk which her ds could have which is going down the plughole.

OP posts:
pommedechocolat · 18/07/2011 07:50

It does sound a bit like she did try though and after struggling with the latching on (which is HARD to master with lots of babies) gave up.

Unfortunately until the child is old enough to be independent it is the role of the parent to decide. There are a lot worse decisions you can make as a parent than ff.

Original poster
wheelygirl · 18/07/2011 07:51

Just read that post back and it seemed a bit harsh. I don't want to offend anyone.

I am not talking about people who try and can't do it or try and then choose not to do it.

I am talking about choosing to not even try at all. To not give the baby the first colostrum which is 'the first immunization' why would she not even do that?

That's all I'm saying.

OP posts:
Original poster
wheelygirl · 18/07/2011 07:52

Sorry, should have made it clear. She said it was too much of a faff to get him to latch on meaning she didn't try to get him latch as she was preempting a faff iyswim.

OP posts:
cory · 18/07/2011 08:18

bumbleymummy Sun 17-Jul-11 23:23:14
"Sigh... I personally am not claiming that it is untrue. If you disagree with studies that say that bf actually helps prevent PND then take it up with the authors!"

Surely all any study can do is to show that there are statistically fewer instances of PND in breastfeeding mothers? What they can not do is show that breastfeeding would have the same effect on every mother.

And to be frank, I'd be surprised if they can even show that breastfeeding is the cause of avoiding PND: it is perfectly possible that a higher proportion of the women who choose not to breastfeed have other stresses or insecurities which also make them more predisposed to PND, and that these are not necessarily apparent enough to the researcher to allow for in the sample. Any sample is going to be self-selecting: the researcher can only study women who have either chosen to breastfeed or chosen not to do so.

Research can do a lot. But any research project has its limitations and good researchers recognise this.

lovesicecream · 18/07/2011 08:35

Studies believe women who bf are less likely to suffer from PND as breast feeding releases the hormone oxitocin ( the love hormone) it is felt that this can help with the baby blues that can happen due to drops in hormones over the first 10 days after birth, it's not going to make a difference to serious PND

This is also why people constantly quote how the bonding process is helped by bf, bf stimulating oxitocin, feeling the rush of love while bf

This does not mean that women who don't bf don't relese oxitocin and can't bond just as well

Think the thing is not to take studies totally at face value, especially when you don't understand what they are looking at

Riveninside · 18/07/2011 08:42

I think you can feel sad as long as you keep your opinions to yourself

pommedechocolat · 18/07/2011 08:42

but lovesiceream - all studies pointing to the benefits of bf are written in stone and right, right, right, didn't ya know? No room for scientific rational and logic there!

I also second however pointed out that in these debates ff-ers get defensive because there is normally a lot of insinuations that they are ignorant, vain and of low social standing.

razzlebathbone · 18/07/2011 09:05

bumbleymummy - are you thick or just being deliberately obtuse because you're nasty?

"there's others, like razzle, who didn't want to bf at all and yet so much time was spent on forcing her into it. The balance is all wrong..."

The implication is perfectly clear - you mention time being spent and you clearly think that time was wasted? Or do you not think that time spent on forcing me into it was wasted? Your concern appears to be the balance of time and effort on the part of health professionals. Not the damage they do to mothers.

That is why you come across as blinkered, incapable of sympathy and incredibly hard hearted.

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