To think it is weird/ controlling to make your children ask for food?

[RevoltingPeasant]

This is not a thread about a thread, but rather inspired by comments made on a couple of threads over the last few weeks.

Disclaimer: I don't have children yet.

Recently, I have seen a bunch of people saying things like, 'My children don't snack between meals' or 'In my house, children don't take food, they have to ask first'. (The latter comment was about a 13yo.)

Maybe because I am not a mum yet, but I find this hugely draconian and controlling. I don't mean young children: obviously a 4yo is going to eat all the chocolate buttons she can get her grubby mitts on. And I don't mean letting DCs eat whatever they want, whenever. But I have seen people saying that kids of 11-12-13-14 have to ask before getting a snack - I am at this.

When I was 10+ yo, I'd just get a snack if I wanted one. If I started eating lots of crisps/ cake, my mum would've told me no - but the idea that you have to go and beg permission before grabbing a piece of toast or some raisins is just weird and really icky to me!

AIBU?

Bogeyface - my mum ate with us on Sunday lunchtimes. The rest of the time my sister and I ate tea when we got in from school when we were little and my mum and dad ate together when he got in from work at about 7. When we were older meals were squeezed in around dancing, drama, athletics, music lessons, guides or whatever else we were doing that night. Activity definitely too precendence over food. Which I do think is right but I can see could lead to problems in some people.

And my kids do see good examples of meal time eating - not from me but from the 30+ adults and 350 children they eat with two or three times a day most days.

For older kids (which is what the OP was about), I don't think insisting on fixed mealtimes is necessarily desirable or practicable

But that's where families often do their talking, from general chit chat so you don't become strangers to proper in depth what's-bothering-you talking.

DD1 (13.5) asks me questions all the time over dinner and we talk a lot. Her mate on the other hand who last ate with her parents on Christmas Day is a recipe for disaster. She thinks she's Justin Beiber's girlfriend and talks to 'him' online. She's even got 'his' mobile number.

Now obv, that can't all be put down to eating together or not but a collection of reasons including that her parents both work shifts and she is often on her own after school until they arrive home gone 10pm. But when do they talk?!

Also, this girl barely eats. She's tiny (size 8) but thinks she's going to get fat so doesn't eat what her mum says she should - just puts it in the bin. All v

I don't think the comments that children who arnt aloud to help them selves will never learn self restraint are true, in that case children who can help themselves would grow up thinking they can take whatever they want when they want, it's rubbish and all about personal choice and what works for you and your family

I eat with my kids most days, I almost always sit with them when they eat dinner. The teenagers also snack. DS is very self-controlled, actually has better things to do than eat, and has to be encourage to eat, except when starving! DD will snack on rubbish and then not eat dinner. I try to control the amount of rubbish, we have a limit on crisps which everyone respects, and fruit (and yoghurt) are usually okay except just before dinner. If you don't eat a reasonable amount of dinner even if it is "disgusting" you can't snack. Everyone apart from DD always asks, and I usually say yes, DD is a bit more tricky (but she is skinny, healthy and doesn't have many spots, so seems to be doing okay).

YABU -wait until you have hungry teenagers

I think monitoring snacking sets up good habits for eating in adult life.

Our dcs would not ask me for chocolate/sweets ever, they are occasional treats at random which are enjoyed more as they are only getting them around once a week. They can buy them when they want with pocket money, but then eat them after the evening meal. They tend to save up for other things.

They will not ask for snacks when a meal is approaching, as the answer will be no, so they are hungry for the meal. That is not cruel, meals taste better when you're hungry.

They will not ask for biscuits/ cakes at random times as those are for after school snack or pudding.

They will ask for fruit between meals and they can usually have it, up to about 3 pieces a day, but again not before a meal.

We also don't drink anything except for water at non meal or snack times.

I was brought up like this and I have no weight problems, despite eating pudding when I want to and I don't diet.

With 4 dcs who eat a great deal, 2 of them more than me, I would find it impossible to meal plan and budget if the kitchen was a free for all.

Our kids are all normal weight and eat everything.

"(if they run out, they run out tough shit) "

Yes but that would mean there is nothing for their school lunches too. And if the oldest stuffs apples like there's no tomorrow should I expect my 8yr old to go without any?

Buttonmoon, it's easy to have meals as a family if you don't work or if your working hours fit in to mealtimes. I work til 7 or 8 pm - do you suggest my 6yo waits til 8.30pm to eat dinner?

Asinine, that's how it is in my house too.

However, it wasn't like that for me as a child - I helped myself to snacks and very sweet ribena all the time. As well as eating 3 meals a day Consequently I was overweight and have very bad teeth with lots of fillings. I did not want this to happen to my children too.

I have 5 DC and they have to ask for anything other than fruit. They all get their own breakfasts though-cereal or toast, other than youngest toddler. This is beacuse if it was a free for all, there would be nothing left and it already costs £150 upwards for the weeks food with just enough to last the week. If I let them help themselves, all my DSs lunchbox stuff would be gone within seconds. Another thing is, the mess is already hard to keep on top of 3 times a day and I couldn't cope with crumbs etc all day long. If they are really hungry i allow them snacks but try to encourage fruit and they have to have their lunch and tea unless are having it out.

It is abit 'controlling' but you have to with several kids and limited money. A friend of mine has 5 DC too and she let them help themselves and they ate a weeks food in one night!!! So you gotta do what you gotta do!!

'We also don't drink anything except for water at non meal or snack times.'

same for us too.

Of course it's controlling, and it has to be. Obviously the OP isn't shopping for a family, so doesn't appreciate this.

And anyway, I know plenty of children 12+ who would also happily eat as many chocolate buttons as they could get their grubby hands on too . . . and they don't grow on trees either.

YABU...fruit is freely available in our house but crisps etc has to be asked for, for the following reasons

1. They would fill up on junk and not eat a proper meal.
2. I can't afford for them to eat me out of house and home with no one stopping them.

FWIW I also don't see it as 'begging' for permission, my DC are aloud most things, but you have to say no sometimes

Funny how our children often ask for food and say 'have a piece of fruit to keep you going until lunch' and they reply 'nah I'll just wait'.

My house is free for all. No need to ask for food, help yourself. That includes my friends, my child and the neighbours children. It's just my culture...food has no rules. A child once asked me if they could open the cupboards for food and I remember thinking 'why the bloody hell not'? yes I admit I'm constantly buying food but I see no problem with it at all.

Same here MoreBeta. DD will be 'hungry' for biscuits etc any time of the day or night. But will only eat healthy stuff if she's genuinely hungry. Letting kids have unlimited junk is encouraging them to eat as something to do rather than through hunger imo.

My dcs normally ask; as their dm it's my job to help them learn portion control and healthy eating - but as the following shows, it doesn't always work.

After I had left for work yesterday, my dd and five of her pals came home to shelter from the rain and dry off a little. My dh was doing some work in the attic, so when she asked him if they could have a snack, he said yes, but didn't see what they decided to have.

I came home to find that they'd eaten all the crisps, apples, ham, yogurts and cheese, and drunk all the juice in the house.

I can't afford to feed every waif and stray that crosses my doorstep, and have made it plain to my dd that until we do the next big shop she will have to do without. As far as I'm concerned, a snack is a snack, not an entire bloody picnic.

Haven't read the whole thread so I'm sure someone has already made this point.

To me, the main point of making an 11-14 year old ask before taking food is to teach them healthy eating.

So for example when I was a teen I would ask "can I have a bowl of cereal". My mum would say "will you eat all your dinner? if so then yes".

That taught me to assess how hungry I actually was. If I was starving I'd know I'd eat the cereal AND the dinner. If I was just a bit peckish and bored, then I'd know I probably wouldn't finish my dinner if I'd had cereal.

So I wouldn't have the cereal.

By my late teens I'd developed a decent sence of self restraint and working out what I should and shouldn't eat - so the rule no longer applied.

If you plan your meals at sensible times, and your children eat without asking whenever they are hungry, they will naturally tend stuff themselves silly on snacks about half an hour before you serve up a meal. This is not a good long-term plan. Nor is it great if some ingredient you've bought specifically to use in something you're planning to cook, or for the next day's packed lunch, gets hoovered up by a snacking child. Nor is it marvellous, if you have multiple children, if one of them eats all the available stuff in the house and the other is then left without.

So mine ask; if it's approaching a mealtime I say no and tell them to wait until [meal]. If it's not I'll generally say yes. If it's DS I'll pretty much always say yes as he self-regulates very well; if it's DD1 then I'm more cautious as she will stuff herself silly given half a chance.

Also, at bedtime both of them will use "wanting a snack" as a delaying tactic.

A useful tactic if they ask for "a snack" is to say yes, of course, they can have [something reasonably healthy and boring] -- if they are actually hungry they will generally jump at it.

Mine aren't secondary age yet, but how I handle it when they are will depend on them -- if they are good at self-regulating and have the common sense to think about mealtimes and the consideration to think about other people then I'd let them help themselves. If not, not.

"A useful tactic if they ask for "a snack" is to say yes, of course, they can have [something reasonably healthy and boring] -- if they are actually hungry they will generally jump at it."

My mum used to do this - if we said we were hungry we'd be offered a piece of fruit. Good way of differentiating between being actually hungry and just wanting a biscuit etc, which is not the same thing! If only I could impose the same discipline on myself now .

Ok. i'm still a bit

So, you all agree that you cant let children eat unlimited choc and crisps. (i keep mine in a very high cupboard that we dont open everyday, not only because of the dcs but also myself , they are for special treats, guests, my monthly cravings).

But what about toast, cheese etc?

I 'm asking because my eldest is 10 and he still needs supervising in the kitchen but i was thinking that in couple of years he can be free to use the kitchen. This is what he can find in our kitchen: fruit, raw veg, boiled eggs, hummus/tzatziki, cheese, ham, sausages, milk, bread, butter, porridge, tins of sardines, olives, plus the fridge drinks wine/beer/coke/juice. Lets say this is group A.

The rest is : frozen meat/mince meat/fish, frozen broccoli and peas, onions/garlic, olive oil, herbs and spices, jars of paste, several pulses, pasta, rice, flour. Thats group B.

I don't think any child will snack on group B. So what happens if he snacks on group A? (apart from the drinks-they know that the wine and beer is for me and dh, the coke and juice for visitors). Actually fruit is the most expensive one in the list.

Or am i naive?

laquitar - I started a thread about this very subject recently. I reasoned that if they were allowed to help themselves to good food - ie fruit, wm bread, cheese, cereal etc with no really junky stuff - they would be fine! Hmmm..... sadly they still eat loads and (in DS1's case) get a pit lardy, and it costs a fortune. So now they have to ask whenever they want to eat - and it's a total PITA but there we are.

Ah i think i remember your thread now Ormirian. You see i might be naive because mine are not teenagers yet.

But i was free when i was at home and i remember snacking on red peppers and melons because thats what we had plenty as they were very cheap those days in Spain. And salami. But maybe i was weird teenager. I might end up locking my kitchen in few years time and eat my words.

Mine don't have to ask for fruit (although they usually do anyway) but I do expect them to ask for anything else in case dinner is nearly ready. I don't refuse reasonable requests for bread and butter or a bowl of cereal if they're really hungry, but I don't want them filling up too much before meals.

My eldest teen is often home alone just now (finished college until the Autumn) and I get so angry when I come home and find she's cooked all the bacon, eaten half a loaf of bread, finished the crisps and had umpteen chocolate bars. I am seriously considering a lockable cupboard!