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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel touched by Katie Price's article on Harvey?

415 replies

emkana · 30/06/2011 13:27

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2009642/Katie-Prices-heartfelt-denunciation-Frankie-Boyles-vile-slur-Harvey.html

OP posts:
fit2drop · 01/07/2011 23:36

maurice Why pick on whitecat? why is she a twat? because she thinks your comments are stupid. She certainly is not on here own with that thought.

You are the one being a smart arse. You honestly believe that you will incur any sort of agreement to your out there comments. ie saying that you would find it funny(but a bit harsh maybe) if your son was accused of being a sexual deviant.
Are you really so dense to the point that even a clue could not escape?

No way ever could you or anyone convince me that what FB said funny,
it wasn't even one of those 'oooh I shouldn't laugh but im sniggering behind my hand' type of jokes.
Its not even a case of having different senses of humour.
What FB said is just not funny.Hmm

I sincerely hope that you never find yourself in a positon where you have to defend your child from the nasty, viscious, filthy minded disgusting and vile comments. Or have to justify your parenting skills in a public arena.
You would be toast!

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 07:11

MT Perhaps you do not like Whitecars words. Personally I think she's hit the nail firmly on the head. However, i tried to explain to you the hurt these comments and others like them cause. Not always to the disabled person per se but to those who care for them and love them who are forced to listen to this type of abuse every bloody day in one way or another; whether it's out right jokes or just little asides/sniggers or comments.
You have chosen to ignore that.

Carers of disabled children are not particularly precious or PC- I like a laugh along with the next person. In fact if I couldn't laugh about our situation I think sometimes I'd die. BUT there is a limit as to what we are expected to accept in the name of comedy. FB clearly oversteps the boundaries and is simply not remotely funny. I actually used to quite like him on the panel shows although sometimes I did grimace. But to take the piss out of someone who can defend themselves is one thing, to do it to those who cannot is completely despicable.
I'm originally an 'Essex gel' (made in Dagenham) and have heard pretty much all the essex girl jokes. Some are hilarious and really make me laugh but of course I can always come back with a sharp retort.
Those with disabilities cannot always do this and this is why it is unacceptable.
And for us carers who are forced to hear these comments everyday it bloody well hurts to the core of our hearts.

Can you not understand that still?

Would you seriously find it funny if when walking down the road with your child, people looked at him and sniggered/called him a r*tard/ugly/should be locked away and so on? Or when someone stands in front of an audience and makes jokes at his expense? It's all same meat different gravy.

I think it might have been the Disability Rights Commission who said 'it is not the disability which disabled a person but rather societies attitude towards them. Just about sums it all up really.

ScarletOHaHa · 02/07/2011 08:20

Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. Also known as empathic concern, it is the feeling of compassion or concern for another, the wish to see them better off or happier. Although empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, a subtle variation in ordinary usage can be detected. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feelings of a similar sort.[1] Sympathy not only includes empathizing, but also entails having a positive regard or a non-fleeting concern for the other person.
What is wrong with sympathy?

SJisontheway · 02/07/2011 08:29

Maurice, can you not see that as a society we are at least a couple of decades behind in terms of acceptance of disablism vs racism. Either you believe racist jokes are acceptable too or you believe people with disabilities - the most vulnerable in our society - aren't entitled to the same protection. Either way, you are not coming across well. I have to say I agree with swc.

mauricetinkler · 02/07/2011 08:49

I said earlier up thread SJisontheway that, with humour, virtually anything goes for me. If people don't like that, well tough.
The FB thing, as I have also said, was just too absurd, bordering on parody to take literally. If he came out with something equally absurd/surreal about blacks/asians etc I would probably laugh along.
Vulnerable sections of society will always come in for shit; that is the world we live in I'm afraid. I am 100 pc certain, however, that censoring people like FB won't make one iota of difference to that fact. The most powerful force by a long chalk in terms of changing attitudes to the disabled is the media...so, don't hold your breath.
How I am coming across here is of no consequenc to me. I am not trying to change anybody else's views, just explaining my own.

SJisontheway · 02/07/2011 09:00

I have to say I disagree. We are a lot less tolerant today of racism on stage and in public. The 2 are closely related. If fb can make such jokes in the name of satire is it ok for the local kids to do the same at my daughters expense? Can you really not see how the 2 are linked. Do you really expect us as carers to sit back and accept this or try to educate people. I'll go for the latter any day and this is why I can only see kp's programme as a positive thing. It seems however you are unreachable. What a wonderful role model you are for your kids.

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 09:36

There's nothing wrong with sympathy Scarlett. (However for one thing it's very doubtful that anyone else can even try to sympathise with the feelings my boys have; the way they perceive the world around them, unless they too have FXS or at least carrier status)
But how can someone claim to sympahise with someones situation while at the same time laughing at them?

That's like me saying "oh sorry your husband just dropped dead of a massive coronary but you just reminded me of a joke I heard...did you hear the one about the bloke who dropped dead of a massive coronary?"
Confused.com

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 09:41

The thing is as well that if someone makes a racist/sexist/area joke at someones elses expense that 'victim' can generally stand up for themselves and come back with something equally scathing. Not saying I agree with those type of jokes but still...
Many disabled people can't do this; they're the silent minority. It's only us as carers who can defend them and imagine having to defend your child constantly, every time you go outside your front door. Would you like to have to do that? would you like to hear people ridiculing your child/ren, making fun of them and their condition/mocking them.laughing at their expense...?

But of course it's ok if you can then claim to 'sympathise' innit!

GwendolineMaryLacey · 02/07/2011 10:26

Good post SJ. "Anything goes for me and if you don't like it, tough" is probably the most arrogant statement I have ever read on here. How can anyone with an ounce of intelligence not see the connection between 'popular' culture and societal behaviour?

Great role model for his/her children Hmm

ScarletOHaHa · 02/07/2011 11:03

unpa1dcar3r I said sympathise in an earlier post the definition refers to how I feel - nobody else.

Ridiculing and the example you used is absolutely not on.

mauricetinkler · 02/07/2011 11:34

GwendolineMaryLacey - FB is hardly popular culture. His humour is leftfield to say the least. In any case, if we are going to start fretting about the impact of popular culture on societal behaviour, why not try some genuine popular culture - ie Jordan. Trading on the fact that you are basically wank fodder for teenage boys is hardly the greatest example for young girls methinks.
BTW - you might not like my views but by suggesting what kind of role model I am for my kid having never met me is a bit poor to be honest.

SJisontheway · 02/07/2011 12:32

Interesting theory maurice. So fb is leftfield and not part of popular culture so that makes it ok. I guess you believe Ant and Dec making similar jokes on primetime would be distasteful. So how do we police this? Shall we base it on viewing figures or perhaps set up a panel to decide if someone is "leftfield" enough to get away with it. Look, we either tolerate minorities being marginalised and ridiculed or we don't. I know which camp you are in, but I'd like to think most decent human beings would think otherwise, with enough education on the matter.

Kallista · 02/07/2011 12:32

I found the article on Harvey very interesting.
(It was ghost written but KP makes no secret of needing ghost writers.)
Why should she keep Harvey out of the public eye just because he is disabled? Even if KP was not on reality shows her children would still be papped just like all the children of famous people.
Hiding Harvey away would be akin to the way George V hid Prince John due to his severe epilepsy.
FB's comments were indefensible as young children & the learning disabled cannot defend themselves.

Also it's a shame Katie has to justify why she needs help with childcare. She has a soon with multiple needs who has to be watched 24/7, as well as 2 other children.
I just wish that better govt funded access to carers and other services was available to parents who are not rich.

Glitterknickaz · 02/07/2011 12:40

It's like the person from MIND said on the documentary... it's not like there cannot be humour around disability, frequently there is and actually sometimes it's a good coping mechanism.

Those comments though, they weren't humour. They were bullying.

sickofsocalledexperts · 02/07/2011 12:57

To all those arguing (tediously) for their and Frankie Boyle's right to have a good old laff at a 9 year old child's disabilities, I am going to retell the "joke" with a racist rather than a disabilist slant. Can you let me know if you are still chortling at the racist version, and if not why not? I suspect that the only difference is a few years of social opprobrium.

"Jordan and Peter are still fighting over that little half-black kid - one of them is going to lose and have to keep him"

"The only reason Jordan married a cage fighter is to stop that fat black kid of hers from trying to fuck her."

Still laughing, MT?

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 13:09

I disagree Scarlett; Ridiculing and the example I used are exactly Spot on. What I have used is exactly the same as some posters comments about how they 'sympathise' with disabled people yet feel it is still ok to ridicule them by laughing at disablist jokes.
Like I also said, and to echo what Glitter has said, yes of course we-as carers- laugh about our situations. If we didn't we'd go bloody mad but this isn't the same as taking the proverbial piss out of someone simply because of their disability which is what FB did.
Saying that his parents wouldn't want him because he is disabled is the same as saying who the hell would want to care for a person who has disabilities, even his own parents don't want to. And we are meant to laugh at that???
As for the other so called 'joke' he made...well, it is beyond reprehensible.

Like me saying Aw I'm sorry you're an asian person but I lurve jokes about p*ki's.
Ridiculous and absolutely the height of ignorance.

ScarletOHaHa · 02/07/2011 13:36

Sorry unpa1dcar3r . My comment was in response to Peachy's I am not certain disabled people need sympathy. Empathy yes. In my view sympathy is an apt way to describe how I feel and is not meant to patronise.

I did not articulate my thoughts well. I have only read about the FB comment and have never seen his stand up. MY view of the FB comments referred to in this thread are that they are totally unacceptable, offensive, and not in the least bit funny.

In response to the question raised by the OP, I do not feel 'touched' by J/KP.

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 15:22

Ok have one of my Biscuits
Wink

I think the point I and many others are trying to make here is that FB is only the tip pf the iceberg; his jokes were blatant, in yer face, so to speak but everyday we have the (not always) subtle undertones of discrimination to face with our caree's.
Whether it is people in the street, doctors and nurses at hosp and in surgeries failing to even try to understand and lacking in any kind of awareness of disability issues, and all the authorities we have to deal with daily with our children; the battles and uphill struggles whcih keep many of us awake at night, the forms, the paperwork...this is without the ability to also deal with our caree's.

The last think we need is for the --wankie pusheads- Boyles of the world to think it's ok to mock them on top of all this because it's 'edgy' or 'anything goes with humour' and so on...no it bloody doesn't. It's hurtful and unfounded and completely ludicrous and defamanatory.
Rant over!

CrapolaDeVille · 02/07/2011 17:18

The joke was only about disability....why was it funny?

It wasn't.

Jokes about disability are funny, if they challenge ignorance and social awkwardness......when, essentially, the jokes on the non disabled usually. That I will happily laugh at.

CrapolaDeVille · 02/07/2011 17:19

Also FB's 'jokes' do lend themselves for other twats to use the same language. Bit like Black and white minstrels informed some people that black people stupid.....

crispyseaweed · 02/07/2011 17:34

Havnt read any of this but I think that Frankie boyle was disgraceful , ignorant, uneducated and a totally rude , insulting pig.
How dare he crack sick jokes like he did about Katie Price and her lovely son Harvey. He is extremely insensitive and needs taking to court , convicting and charged for his bad behaviour.

mauricetinkler · 02/07/2011 17:37

This reply has been deleted

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CrapolaDeVille · 02/07/2011 17:47

MT... not so. People are hugely ignorant of SN (I'm sure you understand) and his comments buy into the idea that SN can mean sexually aggressive.

You know FB is a comedian?
His job is to make people laugh.
You know that when he tells jokes it's part of his job?
This Harvey joke was one of those.
He said noone would want Harvey......because he has SN. What's funny?

What don't you get? People living the fucking hard life that living with disabilities presents have told you that they were offended.....nuff said.

CrapolaDeVille · 02/07/2011 17:48

His joke wasn't about attitudes, it wasn't intelligent, it was low, picked on vulnerable people and reinforced pretty abhorrent views.

unpa1dcar3r · 02/07/2011 18:15

I wish there was a thumbs up sign on here Crapola 'cos I'd use it with ref to your comments. Well summed up! Smile