to be totally wound up and pissed off....very very very long story (sorry)

[Stars82]

Ok I need to set the scene for ya

I work in the care industry, we are often subjected to many forms of abuse (not just from those we are care for either) We get bitten, scratched, sworn at, punched, and recieve an abundance of verbal abuse....

I was involved in an incident today which has been playing on my mind at little...

All names have been changed
CAPITALS are used for the raised voices in the convo

Bad timing is a particular bug bare of mine, I detest being late for anything. I arrived at Bett and Bills at 0923 (for a 0930 call)

I went into the house and greeted them in a polite, happy and professional manner only to be greeted back with moans and looks of disgust, general rudeness (not unusual sometimes). The convo is as follows

Bill: You are very early stars
Me: only 5 minutes, my sheet say 0930
Bill: (huffs and pants, clearly pissed off) It is meant to be 0945 on a Friday
Me: honestly Bill I am not lying (shows my sheet)
Bill: Don't care what it says on there it is 0945, Our breakfast is going to be ruined now
Me: sorry bill but seen as I don;t come here regulary I am unaware of betts particular timings, I just follow my sheet. I will wait until 0930 and if 2nd carer doesn't arrive I will call office and wait in the car (getting a little wound up at this point)
Bill: THE OFFICE BLOODY KNOW THE TIMINGS..

at this point 2nd carer walks in to more groans and huffs etc

Bill: here's another one that is too early
2nd Carer: Sorry????
Bill: you are not meant to be here until 0945 (very angry now)
2nd Carer: my sheet also states 0930 Bill....
Bill: I'm not having this I'm going to eat upstairs.....
Me: I will go outside and call office
2nd Carer: (reminds bill of timings policy etc)
Bill: WELL THAT DOESN'T BLOODY COUNT IN THIS HOUSE
2nd carer: well it clearly does bill
Me: right I am going to call office
Bill: WHATS THE BLOODY POINT
Me: well yu are clearly annoyed at something that has been way beyond our control bill and I feel I need to talk to the office. You are being very rude and aggress
Bill: I AM NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE
2nd carer: you are bill

We then go outside, inform office to be told that Bill has a reputation for being extremely hostile, to try to do what we can, and remember we are not paid to take abuse of any kind. The office will call Bill

We return....

Me: Bill the office are going to call you
Bill: well don't bother
Bill: you ahve totally ruined our breakfast...(has a rant about nurses and timings and other appts)
Me: again Bill I am NOT physic
Bill: just stop talking, you are delaying breakfast even further
Me: hang on a minute, this has been a two way convo, we are both delaying breakfast
2nd carer: bill there is not need to be so rude
Bett: (to me) and you turned up at 0920!!!!
Me: I actually turned up at 0923, and in all the times I have been to you Bett, I have always been either on time or very slightly early and not ONCE have you ever said that you didn;t like it. I have even turned up to find a carer has already started and again noting has been said. You can't pick and chose when you feel it is going to be acceptable to accept a carer early!!!!!
Bett: OH JUST SHUT UP!!!! (also has rep for being rude and nasty at times)
Me: and we don;t get paid enoughto take ANY FORM OF ABUSE
Bill: right thats it

Bill moves in to grab my arm which I doige

Bill: go on and get out
Me: I am more than happy to leave but DO NOT TOUCH ME, I have no objections being asked to leave but you will not lay a finger on me

We both get our things and head to door, at this point bill panics..
bill: no 2nd carer you can stay
2nd Carer: no bill this has also involved me, you have been rude to me and I havebeen involved in this arguement, If we leave we both leave I have also said my fair share today

Called office etc etc

AIBU to think that this situation is totally out of order?? I feel really wound up by it and I keep replaying it in my head :(

I am always polite and professional and have a good rep at work and feel that this will cast a shadow. Totally annoyed

I think you handled it just fine.
Mind you in my time when I used to do the job I had someone run at me with a broken glass aimed at my face and someone try to shove you down the stairs.

I know that a lot of people actively resent their home carers.

I'm not sure Iraq is a good example of a situation that was 'defused'

I think the word you want is annihalated

I think people underestimate how difficult looking after older people can be. Iwork in a nursing home and the daily abuse we take is astonishing.. All for the princely sum of 6quid odd an hour.

Some people are just aggressive and nasty, all the escalation training in the world won't change that.

If Op had said "ok, I'll wait in the car until 9.45, no problem" then that would've been wrong as well, because then they wouldn't have got their full half hour/hour, and then they would have complained about that as well, you can't win Op, :(

He was out of order shouting at you but I think you could of defused the situation better. You just went round and round in circles about the timing.

Right at the start of the conversation he said he was worried about his breakfast but you just dismissed this and went on about how you weren't lying about the timing. His concern was about his breakfast (rightly or wrongly) and that was when you could of defused the situation. Instead you ignored his concern and went on about the timings.

I think some training on how to handle conflict and defuse a situation would be helpful here.

Ok fairenough maybe using the Iraq example was wrong but what I was tring to get across is that I'm not a little immature and inexperienced person and that I have found myself in far worse situation that all.

People do actively react badly toward carers... Not from bill but I've been bitten, punched, been called a horrible c@@t, had parts of my body groped and touched that shouldn't be etc

Yes I do agree with a great deal of comments said, bill is possibly only one bad example of some of the people I see, most I would generally do anything for (like go to hospital with despite being on a day off and nit getting paid)

I do appreciate and respect all comments even if yet think IABU but I just felt so shocked today that bill thought it was fine to treat us like that ;)

I greatly admire those who work in the caring profesions and try to do a good job; nurses, home help ect. I certainly couldnt face it every day. Thank God there are people like you who can. So well done!

Certainly not in it for the money, thats for sure.

When he said he was going to go upstairs to eat his breakfast I think I would have just said 'OK' and let him. But I have no experience of being a carer so you probably had good reasons not to just let him.

I'm a care worker too (6 years, various situations, children, teens and adults), and although I haven't worked in the Forces, I would imagine that defusing situations in the two are very different.

There are things you have said that I would have done differently, and that i wouldn't have said. More training is always a good idea in this industry, so might be worth asking your employer for a top-up on Crisis Management and Communicating with People with {whatever eg Dementia, ASD etc}

He did speak to you inappropriately and should not have shouted or tried to touch you. Unfortunately, these things often happen and are common when people are frustrated, out of control, stressed and/or ill.

Try to relax and switch off now, you handled the situation well and, while there may be room for improvement next time (there always is, that's not a personal thing) it's done now. If you need reassurance, ask your best mate/DP/parent what your tone of voice and body language are like. I'm not trying to criticise yours but we often don't realise how we appear to others so get a frank opinion (when you're sober and calm)

Please don't take any of this personally, i'm just sharing my opinion which you are free to ignore

I treat patients in community (and in their own homes)
In clinics we have a computer sheet print out of the daily diary which I check first thing. Patients make their appointments via the office (phone or posted)>

So when someone turns up and the are not on the list or not at the time they thought it is always my fecking fault even though I had nothing to do with the booking
The ones who really make me are the patients who claim to have an appointment for a timeslot which doesn't exsist.
Usually "Why did she tell me 10-30?"
And I say "Well !0-30 doesn't appear on screen so I don't know whats happened"
No chance they could have written it wrong or in some cases not written it at all.
Breathe!

The person in the wrong is the one being aggressive, shouting and unreasonable. Not the person putting up with it. OP, I think you did as well as you could. There is always something you can improve, especially if you in the fortunate position of being someone on the internet who is not a carer and has never had to deal with this kind of situation.

I think YABU, why did the whole thing go on for so long? Why do you start arguing and showing him evidence when it's clear he doesn't care about it?

I just can't read your conversation as polite.

He says you're early - why not just say "sorry about that, how's things today anyway"

he then says it should be 9:45, why not say "really, sorry about that must be a mix up"

You just sound pretty antagonistic and as for the not being psyhcic, that just sounds rude.

I understand he is miserable, I understand that you get a lot of abuse in your job but you just sound a bit jobsworthy.

To everyone else:

Stars wouldn't be doing the job unless she had already received Crisis Management training.

How many people sit in their office behind their computer under constant threat of physical and verbal abuse? For, as Worzel said, the princely sum of six pounds fuck-all an hour? I know a 17 year old shelf-stacker in a major supermarket who gets more per hour from me, and proper breaks on top!

I think you answering him back constantly and trying to be smart (ie. the psychic remark) only added fuel to the fire.

It's a really hard job and while I do think you handled it OK, you could have handled it a little better. I agree with Journey in that you didn't actually listen to his concerns. Maybe something like this:

Bill: You are very early stars
Me: I know, I'm sorry. I know it's supposed to be 9:30 but as I was early I thought I'd come in and see if you wanted anything extra doing instead of wasting the time in the car.
Bill: (huffs and pants, clearly pissed off) It is meant to be 0945 on a Friday
Me: Oh really? I've been told 9:30.
Bill: Don't care what it says on there it is 0945, Our breakfast is going to be ruined now
Me: There may have been a mix up at the office. I can't do 9:45 today as I have another call after this, but I'll give the office a call later and see what we can do for next week. Is there anything you want me to do while you finish your breakfast?

Hopefully he would have accepted this as you are listening to and addressing both of his concerns (the early than expected call and his breakfast).

I also find it a bit rude that you quibbled with Bett over three minutes!

lenak that's exactly the conversation I was thinking of, it's perfect, if he went off on one after that then I would have had some sympathy for the OP.

As a carer you shouldnt be making this all about you!;My pay is only £6- (why were you telling Bill your pay is to low that sounds awful) and Im always under threat etc

How about the person receiving the care- how do you think they feel? Can you not have the slightest understanding how their lives are stressful and hard and this aggressive way of speaking is hardly going to help. You have to make huge expections to the people you for and employ the use of humour and patience.

I used to work shortly as a NHS carer and with SEN children when I was in education and yes is trying but I would never have spoken to anyone under my care like that.

It's friday! have a and enjoy the weekend.

I think you handled it ok - but I also think you are maybe blowing it out of proportion slightly. This conversation is something I would have expected to be run of the mill when dealing with elderly, infirm people in their own homes.

However, sometimes the little things can seem huge when we have usually had a gut full and this may have been enough to send you over the edge today with stress.

I am sure you do an excellent job and you remained professional. Have a glass of something nice or a and sit back. Give yourself a break because being a carer is tough and you should let yourself have a wind down.

The caring profession is hard work, I don't think anybody would argue that.

I think you sounded quite stressed and keen to get in, do what you have to do and get out again. Perhaps thats how you have to be to get through, it sounds as if you have a long list of calls to make.

From what you've posted, and that's all that's there, I think you sounded a bit officious. The second carer compounded the problem and it sounded a bit like you were 'ganging up'. I'm sure you weren't but perhaps that's how it comes across. 'Care-ees' are to be 'dealt with'.

I can understand if the timings really matter to the elderly; their home is their castle and perhaps they don't like having visits, even if they need them, as somebody said further up the thread. No, you don't expect to be abused at work but I also think there might have been a better way to handle this, particularly the 2nd carer who left without doing her job. Did anybody look after 'Bill and Bett' that day?

I think the caring profession is on its knees... :(

I think you got drawn into the discussion when it would have been better to keep it very simple. It does come across as a bit argumentative.

When someone is irate there really is nothing to be gained from getting drawn into a discussion about the nitty gritties iyswim.

There should be a care plan in place regarding how to deal with this man given he has a history of aggressive behaviour. It should detail what steps to take if he is aggressive and he should be aware of it so he knows what consequences to expect.

I understand what it is like to be abused by the people you are trying to help, I get verbal abuse most week at work and have been physically assaulted on several occasions.

I think he behaved like a complete pillock with a massive sense of entitlement. I would hate to care for the elderly, and wouldn't dream of doing it for the modest pay which is available. I expect other people will have the same attitude from him so I can't imagine they'll judge you.

purplepidjin Sorry to disagree, my late mother had to have carers for the last 8 years of her life and you would be amazed at how many carers she had who had had precious little training of any kind!

I understand how you feel OP and I know that it isn't your fault that you were sent at the wrong time. However, you don't know how many times the timings had been wrong for this couple or what other problems they may have had with your employers.

My mum was a diabetic and as such, would have been kept more stable if she had meals at regular times. Many was the time that she would have had her "supper" at 4pm and then not got a breakfast visit the following day until 10.30am (despite numerous calls to the office for a breakfast visit between 7.30 and 8.30, for which she used to pay an "unsocial hours" premium every day!) often followed by a "lunch" visit at 11.30am.

Mum was very patient and, until the last few weeks before she went into the hospice, never said a word to the carers who came, just kept ringing the office and, when it all got too much, asked me to ring the office for her.

They used to send male carers to do early morning/evening personal care when we repeatedly asked for male carers only to be sent at lunchtime, young girls who, although very pleasant and willing didn't have a clue about cooking (one, on being asked by mum if she could, "just have a toasted teacake please, as I'm not very hungry" wandered into the sitting room, teacake in hand, and said. "I can't get it into the toaster, can I slice it in half?"!!

Towards the end she did become a bit cantankerous, although nothing like your couple, but she was in pain and frightened as she knew she would be going into the hospice soon and not coming out alive. The last thing she needed was a carer arguing with her. Fortunately it only happened once and mum got very upset and asked her to leave and called a neighbour, who called me.

Fortunately, when the supper carer came, she was one of mum's "regulars" who had known her for three or four years and she knew that mum was, in her words, "a real sweetie compared with some" and she explained that the other carer was new and inexperienced.

Now, I am not for one moment saying that you are not a good carer, OP, or inexperienced, just that this could have been the culmination of all sorts of experiences with other carers, the straw that broke the camels back iyswim.

I really do think that you didn't help by being so "jobsworthy" and arguing. When Bill said that arguing was holding breakfast up, it might have been more prudent to just say, "you're absolutely right, I'll go and get on with it", bitten your tongue and done just that. It's hard for anyone to remain angry with someone who just refuses to answer back!

Frantic, please don't apologise for disagreeing. My experience is with Learning Difficulties, and I pick my employers quite carefully. I know that there are far too many people around who have bad experiences on both sides.

You make some very valid points about how little training particularly Domiciliary Carers receive It's why I don't do it!