to be totally wound up and pissed off....very very very long story (sorry)

[Stars82]

Ok I need to set the scene for ya

I work in the care industry, we are often subjected to many forms of abuse (not just from those we are care for either) We get bitten, scratched, sworn at, punched, and recieve an abundance of verbal abuse....

I was involved in an incident today which has been playing on my mind at little...

All names have been changed
CAPITALS are used for the raised voices in the convo

Bad timing is a particular bug bare of mine, I detest being late for anything. I arrived at Bett and Bills at 0923 (for a 0930 call)

I went into the house and greeted them in a polite, happy and professional manner only to be greeted back with moans and looks of disgust, general rudeness (not unusual sometimes). The convo is as follows

Bill: You are very early stars
Me: only 5 minutes, my sheet say 0930
Bill: (huffs and pants, clearly pissed off) It is meant to be 0945 on a Friday
Me: honestly Bill I am not lying (shows my sheet)
Bill: Don't care what it says on there it is 0945, Our breakfast is going to be ruined now
Me: sorry bill but seen as I don;t come here regulary I am unaware of betts particular timings, I just follow my sheet. I will wait until 0930 and if 2nd carer doesn't arrive I will call office and wait in the car (getting a little wound up at this point)
Bill: THE OFFICE BLOODY KNOW THE TIMINGS..

at this point 2nd carer walks in to more groans and huffs etc

Bill: here's another one that is too early
2nd Carer: Sorry????
Bill: you are not meant to be here until 0945 (very angry now)
2nd Carer: my sheet also states 0930 Bill....
Bill: I'm not having this I'm going to eat upstairs.....
Me: I will go outside and call office
2nd Carer: (reminds bill of timings policy etc)
Bill: WELL THAT DOESN'T BLOODY COUNT IN THIS HOUSE
2nd carer: well it clearly does bill
Me: right I am going to call office
Bill: WHATS THE BLOODY POINT
Me: well yu are clearly annoyed at something that has been way beyond our control bill and I feel I need to talk to the office. You are being very rude and aggress
Bill: I AM NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE
2nd carer: you are bill

We then go outside, inform office to be told that Bill has a reputation for being extremely hostile, to try to do what we can, and remember we are not paid to take abuse of any kind. The office will call Bill

We return....

Me: Bill the office are going to call you
Bill: well don't bother
Bill: you ahve totally ruined our breakfast...(has a rant about nurses and timings and other appts)
Me: again Bill I am NOT physic
Bill: just stop talking, you are delaying breakfast even further
Me: hang on a minute, this has been a two way convo, we are both delaying breakfast
2nd carer: bill there is not need to be so rude
Bett: (to me) and you turned up at 0920!!!!
Me: I actually turned up at 0923, and in all the times I have been to you Bett, I have always been either on time or very slightly early and not ONCE have you ever said that you didn;t like it. I have even turned up to find a carer has already started and again noting has been said. You can't pick and chose when you feel it is going to be acceptable to accept a carer early!!!!!
Bett: OH JUST SHUT UP!!!! (also has rep for being rude and nasty at times)
Me: and we don;t get paid enoughto take ANY FORM OF ABUSE
Bill: right thats it

Bill moves in to grab my arm which I doige

Bill: go on and get out
Me: I am more than happy to leave but DO NOT TOUCH ME, I have no objections being asked to leave but you will not lay a finger on me

We both get our things and head to door, at this point bill panics..
bill: no 2nd carer you can stay
2nd Carer: no bill this has also involved me, you have been rude to me and I havebeen involved in this arguement, If we leave we both leave I have also said my fair share today

Called office etc etc

AIBU to think that this situation is totally out of order?? I feel really wound up by it and I keep replaying it in my head :(

I am always polite and professional and have a good rep at work and feel that this will cast a shadow. Totally annoyed

[purplepidjin]

Just to add, I would happily help my 90 year old Gran with these things. I've got the training and experience. She's currently very independent, but has had TIA's in the past and needed help.

She has flat out refused.

She's perfectly capable of choosing who looks her arse and tits, and would prefer the anonymity of a relative stranger. As did my other, now deceased, grandmother.

[frantic51]

Sorry mathanxiety I misread your previous post, mea culpa. Yes, my point was, mum's care plan clearly stated that, whilst she needed help with physical tasks, she was perfectly sound of mind and, if in doubt, carers could apply to her for clarification of her needs with confidence. She was regularly monitored in terms of her capabilities, both mental and physical and the plan regularly updated and signed by representatives of the care company and mum and her family. So why did some carers ignore, or not bother to read the plan and act accordingly? What was so difficult or oppressive for the carer about that?

[mathanxiety]

'The very reason for her carers was because she couldn't reach into drawers, linen chests etc '

This is the point that Karen seems to have missed completely about her job. The people she cares about can't do for themselves or they would. They are not just trying hard to make nuisances of themselves or contribute to the oppression of carers.

It was her remarks about the cloths that I had in mind:

'i should not be spending 10min looking for stuff it should be there ready for me to my job' -- the fault lay with the previous carer, who had not bothered to communicate to the next one that the cloths were in X location. The carers seemingly did not have enough professionalism to even help each other do their job efficiently. The picture painted here is of people who do not care at all, about anyone.
'..if she had wrote in huge letter on the flannels face and bum ..' And why would colour coded cloths also need to be marked with their purpose?

The strange ideas she has about British culture and why younger generations do not generally tend to the very personal needs of older family members I will not touch upon because they obviously indicate that a wholly different set of cultural assumptions is at play here.

[frantic51]

mathanxiety it was actually my mum who had the hoo ha about the cloths. karen gets on my nerves but, in all conscience, I can't let her take the blame for something I said.

I don't know anything about "regulation" regarding provision of supplies "right under the nose" of the carer. All I know is that we, mum and I, used to have regular meetings with a couple of office wallahs from the agency, called "care-plan reviews". These were supposed to update the carers on mum's condition and make sure that she was getting the correct level of care. Everything was written into mum's care plan.

At the top of the care plan was clearly written a summary of who mum was, basically a lady in full command of all mental faculties but owing to several physical problems had difficulties with balance and therefore walking, bending, reaching etc The laundry systems were spelled out, where everything was kept, how it was colour coded etc. That mum was fully aware of where everything was and that, if in doubt, she was perfectly capable of giving directions/instructions etc. FFS it was a tiny, four-roomed flat, nothing was very far away!

The very reason for her carers was because she couldn't reach into drawers, linen chests etc She couldn't get in and out of the bath so had to be strip washed and there was a stool in the bathroom for her to sit on. She could wash and dry her own face and front and nether regions if handed the cloths and liked to do that for herself while the carer just steadied her as she stood up. She needed someone to wash her back and lower legs and feet as she couldn't reach these areas, a private hairdresser came once a week and washed and set her hair for her. She chose her own nightwear and daywear which the carer was to get out for her under her direction and just help with socks/stockings, pulling her pants over her feet and up to her knees so she could reach and anything that fastened at the back.

As time went on and she developed bowel cancer she began to lose control of her bowels which greatly distressed her. There were disposable wipes available in the bathroom for bad accidents and she grew to need help with cleaning up after these accidents which also distressed her. She gradually progressed to wearing disposable nappy type pants and eventually had a stoma which she dealt with herself, provided someone fetched the wherewithall, but sadly still suffered from discharge from her back passage, owing to the tumour bleeding, which she often needed help with cleaning up.

All this was agreed at the meetings, written into her plan and signed by the agency representatives and us and the vast majority of the carers followed the plan without any problems.

I don't understand why some carers (new or just "new to mum") hadn't seen the plan before they arrived and didn't bother to read it when they arrived, despite it always being readily available on the table in the sitting room, but some hadn't/didn't. Mostly it didn't matter if they realised that mum was fully functioning mentally and simply followed her instructions, always given clearly and politely, plenty of "pleases" and "thankyous" (she was always grateful for the help she received) and mostly, until just before she went into the hospice because her pain could no longer be managed at home, with a cheerful smile.

She really wasn't a difficult person to deal with, the jobs weren't particularly arduous, personal care, making sandwiches or simple snacks, heating up a tin of soup or just dishing out her hot mid-day meal which she had delivered from a local catering company, brewing tea/coffee and doing the washing up from the previous meal. (breakfast carer dressed her and served breakfast, lunchtime carer dished up lunch, washed breakfast dishes, tea-time carer got tea. washed up lunch dishes etc) There was no cleaning to do, she had a private cleaner, no laundry beyond getting things out and putting soiled things into the laundry basket, cleaner and family took care of that, no shopping, family did that and if mum needed extra things she had a couple of friends in the complex who still did their own shopping and would always bring an odd thing for her if she had need.

It should have been so simple really and for her "regulars" it was and they always said that it was lovely to go to mum as she was so mentally capable and charming! I have no idea why some were so difficult with her, sometimes just in little ways, making her turn off her radio because they didn't like her kind of music, having their own ideas about what she should wear or eat and not getting her the clothes or food she asked for. Mostly mum didn't make a fuss but she did become very tearful and easily upset in the last few months and the carer that she ended up hitting, in the incident I described, was just absolutely horrid to her.

[mathanxiety]

Karen, that list of daily duties you posted was nothing more than a schedule.

There was no hint that the toileting, etc., going on involved people. It could have been show dogs you were dealing with.

With an attitude like yours, you would not be hired or if you somehow managed to get through an interview, employed for long in retail or hospitality or any job dealing with people, who can be difficult. A job dealing with people can be as good or as bad as you yourself choose to make it. I used to work for a major, high end hotel chain where the guest was 'always right'. You wouldn't have lasted a week.

Back to the scenario with the cloths:
Even someone changing a baby's nappy knows that the first thing to do is get the supplies you need to hand before you undress the baby in any way. To leave an elderly person alone to go off hunting for cloths is the act of an idiot who takes absolutely no pride in even the basic organisational skills that her job demands.

To expect an elderly person who may or may not know what day of the week it is to have everything necessary for a bath to hand or to be able to direct the carer to the supplies that were put away by the previous person is ridiculous. Many of the people who need care need it because they are not capable of organising themselves as well as incapable of physically getting into and out of the tub. Many of them are unaware of the regulations regarding provision of supplies right under the nose of the carer or what they need to write on various cloths; many can't get out to buy the proper pen to mark the various cloths.

The complete lack of ability to put yourself in someone else's shoes here is mind-boggling.

If you have a pen, why not write on the cloths yourself instead of complaining about the fact that it hasn't been done by someone else?

[KidderminsterKate]

stars I think its really positive that you had time to reflect on the situation and realise it could have been handled better.

I have worked with many carers, some gems, some ok, some Karens and some even worse 'karens' are very typical. Hardened and desensitised. People become faceless, and not real anymore.


karen said "sadly this not true just because some has dementia this does not mean they have free pass to do things .
If they are in wrong setting they will get lock in their room if they walk around weeing everywhere"

wtf????this is unlawful and should be reported......you cannot cannot cannot cannot cannot just lock somebody in a room just because they've urinated on a carpet. When will carers realise this!

[floosiemcwoosie]

Karen
The thing with social care is that how we treat people is not down to personal opinion. Our practice is goverened and guided by, to name but a few, National care standards, regulation of care and most importantly social work values. Its not up to the individual carer to decided how they deliver the support.

In terms of the cloth, universal precautions and the national care standards again dictates our practice.

Whilst Purple has said that she doesnt work with older people, her SVQ would have been underpinned by the social work values system which guides all our practice. I think this is apparent in the way that she talks about how she works with people.

The thing is, if we are lucky enough, we will all live to old age.......how the hell would we want to be treated?

I certainly dont want to be "toileted" or labelled as aggressive because I am scared, confused or in pain.

[purplepidjin]

"...least wanted to work with"

Argh too true! Some people just make it hard for everyone!

[ImeldaM]

I was very hesistant yesterday to comment much to this thread.
I have worked in a variety of care situations, both in the community with adults with learning disabilities & residential elderly.

TBH, I found it hard to make sense what I felt was 'wrong' about the way OP had dealt with the situation. Others, includind purple & frantic have put into words the responses I felt but was not able to write. I am pleased OP has reflected on the situation & realised she could have handled it better.

A lot of responses are what I would have expected & show the range of attitude from various care workers. It is hard work, it is underpaid and under-valued.
There are carers who are excellent at their jobs and really 'care', there are those who do their job appropriately & get on with it and there are those who really don't like their job, do it because 'its a job' and usually you don't see a lot of respect for the service users from the last group.

When I worked in a nursing home, the last group were the types that really for me showed how awful nursing homes can be, people becoming elderly and less able being treated with no respect, like objects to 'toilet'. Fortunately, IME, most staff are not like this but those are the ones I remember and the ones I least wanted to work with.

I think there's something wrong with the recruitment & training processes, you could spot someone with a poor attitude very easily IMO. Its such a shame that most organisations don't seem to care & will employ people who are clearly not suitable.

OP, I do not mean you, the fact that you have spent some time dwelling on your work & how you could have handled it better show that you do care.

Am appalled at Karens posts, especially towards frantic.

[frantic51]

And being in a shared room wasn't a choice because we are/were "cheapskates", it was because it was the only respite bed available when she was chucked out of hospital because they desperately needed "that" bed for someone else. No home is going to chuck a long term resident out of a single room to let in someone who is only going to stay for two or three weeks! Dunno where you are as you haven't replied, but it must be a fantastic area to work in, all those empty beds giving the clients so much choice.

[purplepidjin]

My worst was a kick to the ribs. Signed off for 3 weeks and work tried to not pay me because I'd used a restraint I wasn't trained in. Fortunately for me, I restrained the person because I'd been kicked and they were still being aggressive

Bites behind the knee are a bugger too!

[frantic51]

karen if police have to be called, they should be called straight away, they will usually attend straight away if foul play is suspected. No-one was called, not the police, not the doctor, not the dead lady's family. They just left it all until the morning couldn't be arsed. Carer in charge of the day shift that relieved them was and apologised to mum and to me when I went.

No carer "got it in the neck" over the missing money. Can't you read ?

[purplepidjin]

Verity I've got one headed that way

[frantic51]

And here's a real "shocker", a couple of mum's "regulars" genuinely cared for her and trusted her so much that they gave her their home phone numbers, "in case of emergency" as they knew the family were so far flung! Go on, you can have field day with that one! We never used them, mum wouldn't have "put upon" either of them in that way unless she was really, really desperate, but it was a great comfort to mum to know they were there and they've both since left that particular company anyway.

[karen2010]

re dead body some times the police need to called and you have to leave thing as they are
that is why shared rooms are cheaper stuff like that happens

[karen2010]

love it how the new carer get in the neck
and the one you gave present too who broke the rules were not
they are the one that would have know where the money was

and i said before if all the stuff the carer need was left there would be no need for them to go looking for stuff.

[karen2010]

check my history if you think i am name changer

because when i work out do i will changing my name

i get fed up with carer being slag off by people who wont do the job?
frantic
could have made her mums days far more pleasant if she had one
told the agency she only wanted carers x y
and if there had to be a new carer then she would be there ( she seem to have been there a lot) to show where things are and show were things were
or say mum only wants these carers she would cover
if she had wrote in huge letter on the flannels face and bum
have meal provider ( meals on wheels) rather than carers cooking meals
her mum would have hot meals and the carer could other things for your mum or had the cleaner come in then
carer are expensive cooks

[frantic51]

Well, they could have wheeled mum in there then for the rest of the night!

That is why the gifts were given from me, with a card saying happy birthday/christmas to carer/carer'sDD/DS please accept this (item) from me with best wishes and my signature.

She was stolen from over the years though. She had this thing about having plenty of cash in the flat, "just in case" as she was unable to get to the bank at any time. Twice, more than a hundred pounds "disappeared", when a new carer had been on duty. Mum never reported it though. She "didn't have the energy" and "didn't want the fuss" and, much as it made me angry, I had to go along with her wishes. It was her money, her choice!

But, there was a great level of trust between the family and mum's regulars, some of whom had been part of her care team for 5-7 years.

No law against someone striking up a genuine friendship with someone who just happens to be a carer and just happens to have one of her relatives on her client list. [really wish there was a sticky out tongue emoticon]

[garlicnutter]

x-post, K. Sorry for 'talking behind your back'.

[garlicnutter]

No, not really

It's such a massive issue. I meant what I said to Karen about undervaluing her own job - and can well see what Cutelittlecatlover meant about the grind and lack of support making carers lose motivation.

Imo it's useful to have Karen's pov, even if she is a troublesome namechanger(?) It shows how & why the problem spirals downwards.

It's a shocking situation: the problem is systemic and we all need to be trying to raise awareness.

[karen2010]

no you can just move dead body
the police may need to called .

as for giving carer presents you know why they are not allow to take stuff dont you?
they were risking their jobs and freedom when take your "gifts"
all you mum had to do was say they had stolen it and that would have been it no job from them.
you dont take gifts for clients ever no good carer does this
amazed you think it was right.to do so.

yeah we do reap what we sow we do indeed

[frantic51]

karen I can assure you that there are plenty of shared rooms still about, sadly, particularly if you only want or need short term, respite care. You must be very lucky where you are (are you still in Surrey or Norfolk?) if they are very few and far between.

As to the dead body. There was an empty room just down the corridor, awaiting a new arrival the following day (that lady had died the day before) It would have been a simple enough job to wheel the body out and pop it in there until the morning (all the beds had wheels, like hospital beds and it was a big room) How would you feel, aged 83 recovering from an operation for a terminal illness, having to try and sleep next to a dead body? Oh, I forgot, you don't give a shit, well, neither did the night staff. And don't bother coming back and bleating about only having 10 mins and your right to have your working environment made nice for you, that record is beginning to grate.

She was abused to varying degrees by some of her home carers, she was also royally treated by her "regulars" and used to get very distressed by the rules which said she wasn't allowed to give them or their kids presents for their birthdays or at Christmas (which rule we often "got around" by giving the gifts in my name ) and was truly appreciative of the kindness, consideration and compassion they showed her.

We learned all about the trials and tribulations of being a carer and were deeply shocked by the conditions they had to endure. We did, however, have more sympathy with the good carers (eg. if I was visiting and one arrived late, offering profuse apologies at having been held up by a previous client or with the traffic, mum would sign the time sheet, I would give them a quick cuppa and say that I would see to mum myself, especially if it was just a meal, not personal care, and send them off with some or all of their time made up) Never felt quite so inclined to do that for the "jobworths" though, I wonder why?

We reap what we sow, we reap what we sow.

Ok garlic I can see you glowering!

[worraliberty]

Funnily enough, just before I opened this thread I was wondering what happened to Beesimo......