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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not care if its her wedding/honeymoon, a pregnant woman shouldnt be smoking and drinking?

232 replies

biddysmama · 18/06/2011 23:21

my friend is 11 weeks pregnant, just got married and been on honeymoon. at the wedding she was smoking and drinking and was smoking and(she isnt quitting) drinking on her honeymoon... her last baby stopped growing when she was pregnant and she was induced early. mayb iabu but i really dont like it :(

OP posts:
samstown · 19/06/2011 19:12

Oh and for the record, I would also judge a man who smoked around his pregnant partner.

Ormirian · 19/06/2011 19:21

Offend me? Nope. But I think you are wrong.

Everyone has a right to make their own decisions and that includes pregant woman.

confuddledDOTcom · 19/06/2011 19:22

But it is about what she wants to do! Who else gets a say? Maybe in an ideal world the baby but it doesn't it's up to her to choose and no one else gets a say. The father can offer his opinion or advice but I'm afraid sorry it's her choice not yours. She makes an informed choice about what risks she takes and we do all make them in pregnancy to some extent, just like I did when I chose my high risk VBA2C. OH didn't agree with me but he knew it's my body and his job is to support me in my informed choice.

giveitago · 19/06/2011 19:24

Yup and reiterate that I guess that my boss new all the risks (I'm pretty sure she didn't smoke throughout the pregnancy) - her risk to take and not mine.

I do remember being bloody knackered and falling into a deep sleep on the sofa and then waking up at about 4am to find an ashtray next to me - my dh had come home smoked and watched tv right next to me and I'd slept through it all. I was livid pissed off as this was our child. But it was more about my not smoking and he continuing around me (negating to a degree the efforts I'd made) rather than what other people do with their pregnancies. I had a little baby whereas the woman in the bed next to me who smoked throughout and even when admitted for issues had the biggest baby ever. So big she needed a section. ONce epidural wore off she just got up, left her baby with me or nurses and went off for another. That shocked me more than anything. Leaving your babies with strangers.

samstown · 19/06/2011 19:35

'Everyone has a right to make their own decisions and that includes pregant woman.'

I agree, I guess I would just think differently of them as a person for making that particular decision, therefore I am judging. Im not saying that a pregnant woman smoking or drinking in a pub should be chucked out for it, after all as you say it is her decision. But if I saw it myself I would make a judgement on her behaviour and would be of the opinion that what she was doing was wrong. Surely as long as I am not going up to her and snatching the fag out of her mouth, I am still allowing her to excercise that right as a woman, even if on the inside my judgeypants are giving me a wedgie?

DilysPrice · 19/06/2011 19:39

You can judge whilst not denying the right up choose.

Millions of women voted for George W Bush....twice! Would I deny them that right? No. Would I judge that choice to be wrong? Hell yes!

MarianneM · 19/06/2011 19:40

"I love the fact that some people's understanding of morality stops at legal - illegal."

Yes, it's strange isn't it? No wonder many people don't have even the most basic understanding of morality when the only thing that stops them from doing absolutely anything they feel like doing is the law (and even that does not restrain a lot of people). Nothing should stand in the way of people doing just as they please...your baby's -sorry, foetus's- health? Absolutely not!

I think that it is a good thing if people respect the fact that there are things that are not morally acceptable even if they are legal, and regulate their behaviour accordingly. People "judging" each other can be beneficial too. I live in Finland which is in many ways a much better and safer society than Britain, at least partially because people accept that there are certain things you just don't do. People judge. So for example nobody runs through red lights at zebra crossings = less accidents. People also care, and help out if someone is in trouble and are not afraid to "butt in".

I think the worst thing about Britain is that everybody just minds their own business, people are so indifferent. You can have a guy beating the shit out of his girlfriend on the street and nobody gives a fuck because it's not their business. Or how about the story about the guy stabbed to death on the bus and the other passengers just walked off the bus (after the stabber had gone) leaving the guy dying?

This is the downside of this "it's none of my business" - attitude: no-one gives a fuck about anything or anyone. It's just me and mine, the rest can go to hell for all I care.

Al0uiseG · 19/06/2011 19:47

Beautifully put MarianneM. We're not entrusted with much in Britain because of our lack of judgement.

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 19:47

no-one said that.

People were talking about individual choice, ok? If it is illegal, it is not your individual choice, that choice has been taken away by the law. Still with me? Now, if something is not illegal, you can choose whether or not to do it for yourself.
Morality doesn't need to come into it at all, since the morality of it may or may not have anything to do with the legality of it.

Do you see? Or would you prefer to smugly look down on others when you have not understood a word they have said? Hmm

And I really don't understand your extrapolations at all. You can do something about someone getting attacked on a bus, and many people actually do. You cannot, however, do anything to intervene with regard to a foetus. So you need a better point really.

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 19:48

and stop reading the Daily Fail, the "hell in a handcart" routine is old, and so so dull.

MarianneM · 19/06/2011 19:50

MsTeak, you are being pretty judgmental and patronising (which I thought was a cardinal sin in MN) yourself...

samstown · 19/06/2011 19:51

Deary me MsTeak, I have never come across you before on Mumsnet, but I have found your postings on this thread to be thoroughly patronising and really rather unpleasant, whilst actually not actually contributing much to the debate at all.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/06/2011 19:53

Some posters seem to have really very selective reading filters. What makes you think that my not judging somebody would make me stand by and see somebody being beaten up and not intervene or try to help? See somebody about to drive a car drunk - hell no. It's nothing to do with illegal/legal, it's about what's right. I'm quite happy with the settings on my 'moral compass', thank you.

Bitching on a chatboard and celebrating being 'judgey' holds no appeal for me. It doesn't achieve anything and I don't understand what people get out of it, really I don't.

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 19:56

you guys are funny. Grin

Yes, I'm patronising, you're sweetness and light. Ha-ha-ha!

Any more jokes for me?

samstown · 19/06/2011 20:03

'See somebody about to drive a car drunk - hell no. It's nothing to do with illegal/legal, it's about what's right.'

I totally agree with you here. So what is it about drink driving that makes you think it is 'wrong'? Surely it's their right and their decision to get in a car when pissed if they feel like it?

realhousewifeofdevoncounty · 19/06/2011 20:16

The odd drink won't hurt. And whilst it is obviously not ok to smoke whilst pregnant - if she is one of those people who can have the occasional cigarette then 1 or 2 is unlikely to cause real damage - it is the fact that most smokers are addicts and smoke several a day that causes real harm, so obviously it is best not to open that can of worms when pg. If it genuinely was one or two than YABU. However, if it turned into several, or she was unable to quit the cigs when she returned from hols then yes she is BU imo. BUT, that is her own business all the same.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/06/2011 20:16

Because their actions could put somebody else's life at risk, ditto with witnessing a fight. If I can't intervene (and I probably can't), I can report it and let it be known that I'm doing that.

It is not the same for a pregnant woman; the foetus has no rights. Whether somebody agrees or not, it is entirely up to the woman how she takes care of her body - or doesn't.

realhousewifeofdevoncounty · 19/06/2011 20:20

Just read she has no plans to quit. So actually YANBU. I used to be a smoker but I wouldn't smoke when pg. BUT, I did have the odd glass of wine, and still do now I'm bfing. So maybe I am a hypocrite.

samstown · 19/06/2011 20:22

'the foetus has no rights'

Says who? I guess that is the crux of the disagreement, and the point at which people have to agree to disagree. Can an objective argument be made as to whether a foetus has rights or not?

Ormirian · 19/06/2011 20:29

The law says the foetus has no rights so the decision has already been made.

That has to be the way of it otherwise there could be a situation where a living conscious adult could be in conflict with a foetus with rights.

samstown · 19/06/2011 20:41

Does the law say a foetus has no rights then? If that is the case then how come abortion is only legal up until 24 weeks (is that right? Im not sure!). Is that solely to do with the health and safety of the mother? Genuine questions here, Im dont know much about abortion law.

Although actually it doesnt matter, because lyingwitch has already said that whether something is legal or not does not affect her moral judgements, it is about what is right. Therefore her judgement that a foetus has no rights must come from somewhere else?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/06/2011 20:45

It's a legal decision that a foetus has no rights, samstown, I'm not the only person who actually knew that. To argue the point on the rights of a foetus is therefore moot.

I don't mind your taking issue with my posts but I find your arguments a bit silly really.

samstown · 19/06/2011 21:00

Ok so after a quick bit of googling I can see that the law states that a foetus has no rights (although I am still unclear then as to why abortion is only legal up to 24 weeks, and not to full term?).

However

'It's nothing to do with illegal/legal, it's about what's right'

Lyingwitch, I still dont quite understand what you are saying - I thought by the above you meant that your own personal morality does not come from the law, but by what you deem to be right or wrong, therefore you cannot use the stance of the law to say that a foetus has no rights? Or am I misunderstaning your posts?!

catgirl1976 · 19/06/2011 21:05

Lyingwitch and MsTeak seem very confused to me

"It not about illegal / legal it's about what's right but a foetus has no legal rights so i will use that point too - morality doesnt come into it at all"

I think Marianne M put it very well.

waffler · 19/06/2011 21:18

Sure people have the "right to choose." But the thing is that choices always (whether apparent or not) have consequences and there are always bad consequences and good consequences. As such there are bad choices and good choices. It's not being judgemental, it is just fact.