to not care if its her wedding/honeymoon, a pregnant woman shouldnt be smoking and drinking?

[biddysmama]

my friend is 11 weeks pregnant, just got married and been on honeymoon. at the wedding she was smoking and drinking and was smoking and(she isnt quitting) drinking on her honeymoon... her last baby stopped growing when she was pregnant and she was induced early. mayb iabu but i really dont like it :(

I would judge.

However re the drinking it is less clear cut - the odd glass of wine a couple of times a week isn't going to make any difference. Research shows that you have to drink a lot, get really pissed, continually for it to be a risk to the baby.

I'm overweight. I'm a size 16, having lost weight before TTC and coming down from a 22. I stopped at 16 because I'm happy. I'm fit (I work VERY physically demanding 13 hour shifts), I'm healthy, I feel attractive and my DH finds me attractive. I have a very good diet, I'm just not one of life's naturally thin folk. I was a size 10 in my late teens/early twenties, however to stay that size I had to eat so little that my health was dreadful.

Even if I was bigger and wanted/needed to lose weight though, on getting a +PT I couldn't just 'decide' to stop being overweight, could I? I already have a healthy diet, so nothing to change there. I decided there would be no more drinking, no more smoking, and no more doing various other things that would put my child at risk, and have stuck to this. Losing weight and therefore choosing not to be overweight is something that takes a long time (10 months to lose the 3 stone I lost), deciding you are not going to subject your unborn child to toxins that may maim or kill it takes no time at all. Effort, yes. Time, no. Every time I had an urge to smoke (went after a few weeks), I would imagine myself blowing smoke into a moses basket containing my newborn. It's a very powerful mental image, and smoking when pregnant really is no different to doing exactly that. Thankfully I'm not bothered about alcohol!

It's still careless mree and a risk to the unborn child.

Food is a weakness and sometimes an addiction to the overweight..the same as cigarettes are an addiction.

Who is to say one is easier to overcome than the other?

If kicking a food addiction was that simple, there would be no overweight Mothers and if kicking a cigarette addiction was that simple there would be no smoking mothers.

My point is, everyone has their weakness whether it be food, alcohol or tobacco.

It's easy to judge...but not so easy to sort ourselves out.

Yes mree - I think that's exactly why most of us don't judge overweight pg women, because we know it's almost never as simple as "just lose the weight" whereas not drinking and smoking is very simple for lots of women (not all).

I'm sorry, for a moment there I thought you said I was being careless and putting my unborn child at risk? Please clarify if that is indeed what you meant, taking into account the information given in my earlier post.

But mree, worraliberty is right that being overweight puts the baby at risk too. Why are we so much judgier about smokers though?

YANBU, I didn't know special occasions made it OK to harm your kid.

I find the 'its your body your choice' a bit shit once you've decided to get pregnant and keep it. You're keeping the baby so you're now responsible for keeping the fetus/baby's body healthy too. An adult intelligent woman knows drinking and smoking is harmful for a baby, just about everybody does.

If judging people makes them think twice about doing it... good..

If you're overweight and medically fit then you were not putting your unborn child or yourself at risk.

If you're overweight and not medically fit (whatever that means) then you were putting yourself and your unborn child at risk.

Only you are privvy to your medical records and what the MW's and Dr thought about it.

You can't lose 50 pounds whilst pregnant instantly and healthily but you can quit smoking

RitaMorgan, please have a look at my earlier post, I believe I answered your question (from my perspective anyway) in the second paragraph. To paraphrase, on looking at a +PT, I cannot say 'damn, from now on I'll have to be thin', and wake up the next morning a size 10. I can, however, say 'damn, no more fags and booze for me', and just not have any more. Which is precisely what I've done. Also mentioned in my earlier post was the fact that my size has settled at size 16 with a healthy diet and plenty of exercise. I have been a size 10 in the past, but to maintain that weight had to eat so little that my health suffered. Surely that would pose a greater risk to my baby than being moderately overweight yet fit and healthy?

you can quit smoking if you are strong enough to kick an addiction

Anyone who thinks it's easy to kick any addiction, had better be a healthy weight before they cast stones is my point.

Or are overweight people going to convince themselves they'd stop eating unhealthily the second they saw the blue line, despite often battling with food for years and years?

I'm neither overweight or a smoker but I do find it laughable when one camp judges the other...it's stupid. Both put the baby and mother at risk.

worraliberty, thanks, I'm pleased you clarified that, I make certain I do not put my unborn child at risk by anything or do or don't do and I'm very proud of this fact.

Can I ask (and please feel free not to answer, I'm just curious), have you been pregnant, and did you smoke in that time?

X-post, you've answered my question.

Ok but I'm going to throw this back at you.

If you were overweight (as you said) when you were pregnant, surely the fact you and your child didn't suffer from any of the above risks, was just luck?

I mean, the pregnant woman in the OP may not suffer...her child may not suffer. Yet surely it's better not to take the risk of smoking, drinking or being overweight when it comes to pregnancy?

You and your child still ran the risk of suffering from overweight related problems despite the fact you say you're overweight but healthy?

Some people are smokers and healthy by for how long? Time can soon run out and before you know it..you're no longer healthy but suffering from the conditions the medics warn us about.

but not by

@mree, worraliberty. The thing is, there's no absolute "overweight". On average, most people have an "ideal" weight in the 18-25 BMI region but some people will be in their good region at higher BMIs, others should be aiming for the lower end of the "healthy" range. There's been some interesting studies showing that most people have a "natural" weight they gravitate to - different for different people - and that whilst healthy eating an exercise will quite easily get them down to their "natural weight", going underneath it will require them to basically starve themselves.

If what mree is said is true, it's probable she can't easily get much below a 16 because that's a healthy weight for her to be, whatever the BMI charts might say.

Some very large and thorough studies have failed to find any risk at all to the occasional drink in pregnancy - though it seems that just one big binge can be dangerous. So if the lady was just having one drink on her wedding day I wouldn't judge her for that. Likewise, if she hasn't stopped smoking that's not good : but if she was just having a couple of fags on a special day that's unlikely to have any effect at all.

YANBU - I'm 10 weeks pg and was a heavy smoker and drank over weekends.

I started using patches and got support from my MW. If you really want to, you can do it. It's bloody hard work, though.

Alcohol doesn't have to be cut out completely in pregnancy so I never see the point in judging someone who does have the occasional drink. There's actually call for alcohol guidelines to be scrapped, which I wish they'd do. The reason is sensible women don't need guidelines but the women who aren't sensible won't listen to guidelines. When you see a woman drinking in pregnancy you don't know if she's having her whole pregnancy quota or this is a regular thing so why judge her? Why not take the nicer road and assume it's her one off?

Smoking might be easy for some women to give up but not everyone can stop like that. How about the woman in the paper a couple of weeks ago who thinks she was doing her baby a favour. Even if you were able to give up smoking immediately yourself you've still not been in her shoes to judge.

Not every child of a smoker or heavy drinker will be damaged so obviously some people choose to take the risk over completely cutting either out.

I'm neither by the way. I do have the occasional drink in pregnancy, never touched cigarettes. Women who can will cut them out in pregnancy those that can't need help not judgements.

i would quietly judge, but i would find it very difficult to say anything. i will likely get flamed but i really do think less of women who make these choices in pregnancy. i'd probably only say anything if it was my sister or someone i was very close to.

i'd like to clarify though that women who are desperately trying to give up smoking while pregnant, i have a lot of sympathy for and i think they deserve lots of support. also, for the booze, i don't think one or two glasses a week does any damage, even though personally i chose to be teetotal during pregnancy.

Ok

I am going to put another side of this.

I have very complex medical problems. I take fistfuls of medication every day to keep me alive and as health as possible (which is a total joke) I was take contraceptives and we were using protection and some how I still got pregnant. Once I saw that blue line I knew that I could not have a termination (not picking on anyone that has, I just could not do and keep my mental health, that?s me)

So I was sent to a very good midwife in the UK, very mature dumpy lady (I am overweight due to my medication) We went through the medication tablet, and injection at a time and the result was that I had to come off about 30% of them if I had any chance of a healthy baby. The rest of them had a high likelihood of coursing various defects. Most of the meds I had to come off of, had to be weaned out of the system (can´t stop them straight away) Some of them were anti convulsants, some of them we high dose pain killers (sever spinal injury) so of them were for other problems. I don´t drink I am tea total. But I did smoke (about 20 a day) I spoke at length to the midwife. about pain control etc because ?the pain signals can be as bad for the baby as some of the medication? I spent 9 months absolutely terrified my body was going to let me down. I had scans every couple of weeks. I moved country at 7 months pregnant. Try as I did I could not give up smoking BUT I did switch to a brand with much lower tar, carcerigerons (sp) etc. and I cut down to 2 to 3 a day. You may judge me but I could not do any better, I did my best and I am very proud of that. Oh, I also lost 8 stone whilst pregnant, and had such bad convulsions after I gave birth that my parent were called as I would not get through the night.

However, my DD has infantile asthma and I will wonder until the day I die if I could have tried harder and done more!

So please spare 5 seconds and think. if she is going to be a good mum she will beat her self up enough. If not then there is nothing you can do to change someone else?s behaviour.

YANBU, given that her first DC had to be induced because it had stopped growing. This woman therefore is NOT ignorant of the effects of her behaviour and is wilfully putting this baby at similar risk - that is shit of her.

I went from 20 a day to not had a single puff from when I saw the blue line. The first few days were not pleasant but there was no way I was smoking when i was pregnant I didnt drink for the first 4 months but am now having a small glass of wine once a week. I imagine if I drank it in public I would get some judgey looks which would annoy me but I could live with. Smoking is terrible though and so is drinking more than the odd glass. It may be "her body" but if you saw someone blowing smoke in a babies face you would have something to say and this is no different

worra sorry, but I'm another who quit smoking as soon as I tested positive. And I am v. overweight, but during pregnancy my weight stabilises and I haven't put any on so far at 24 weeks.

Addictions are very hard to break. For me, pregnancy was the absolute stopping point and many, many other women can stop just like that.
BUT, many others can't, and so although it makes me squirm to see too, OP YABU to judge individual women so harshly.

I think it's incredibly selfish when people do things that could potentially harm their unborn or born child. People should have to pass a test before they're allowed to concieve a child.

I saw the thread title and came on to see how many posts there would be before the 'how dare you judge someone for doing something which they know will put their unborn child at risk but they will continue to do anyway because their right to gratification is more important than their child's health and how dare you suggest otherwise?' brigade came on.

I am relieved to see that my faith in MN madness can rest unshaken since it was the second post.

There have been many moments when MN has jumped the shark recently, on various threads, but this belief that it is a worse crime to judge than it is to poison your unborn baby with cigarettes and alcohol is still up there with the best of 'em.