to not care if its her wedding/honeymoon, a pregnant woman shouldnt be smoking and drinking?

[biddysmama]

my friend is 11 weeks pregnant, just got married and been on honeymoon. at the wedding she was smoking and drinking and was smoking and(she isnt quitting) drinking on her honeymoon... her last baby stopped growing when she was pregnant and she was induced early. mayb iabu but i really dont like it :(

so how many of the people on here that say you shouldn't judge smoked and drank in their pregnancy?!?!?

No your not being unreasonable, the first 3 months are the most importnant in a babys development, so this is the best time to be as healthy as possible!! just because its your wedding day doesn't entitle you to damage your unborn babys lungs and liver! yes have a small drink, the recommened 2-3 units per week, but smoking is a definate nono!!! think of all the chest infections, asthma and chronic lung infections to come! even if only for selfish reasons, your the one whos going to be up all night seeing to your sick baby, and rushing them to A&E with the damage you've caused!!

you cant blame ignorance, its a choice to ignore medical advice, its plain selfish to not look after yourself for the mere 9 months it takes to grow your child

Her body her rules, I hate seeing it because I know the damage it does but I wouldn't pass judgement on her.

I only asked the porn thing as Timewasting was on another thread a while ago telling me my choice to wax my vagina was basically encouraging paedophila. i just wanted to be sure as her view that a womans right to choose what she did with her body is the most important thing in the world didnt stand up so much when i chose to do something that she didnt agree with

you're still not getting it though. It's your choice to wax your fanjo, its her choice to have an opinion on it. Same here, your choice to have an opinion on smoking, her choice to smoke.

saying that its someone's choice isn't saying that you aren't allowed to think what you like about it. Its the ridiculous talk about letting people do things and advocating to take those choices away that is objectionable.

No no. I am getting it.

I have never said anything about "letting" people do anything nor have I advocated to remove those choices.

All I have said is that I personally feel that women who smoke when pregnant are irresponsible. I doubt anyone would say they thought smoking when pregnant was a good thing or something that should be encouraged.

What annoyed me was someone saying "a womans right to choose what she does with her body is more important than whatever that choice may be" when so far as i can tell that poster only thinks that when the choice in question is not something which conflicts with her own judgey areas.

Smoking and drinking when pregnant can harm the baby if it is done to excess but the one thing I really hated when I was pregnant is the fact that suddenly your body is not your own , you can't even go into starbucks without some busy body telling you caffeine isn't good for the baby or having someone whisk away your toast and peanut butter in case the baby is allergic.
I agree that smoking twenty a day is really bad and I don't see how someone could smoke that much anyway my limit is six a day if that, but it is their business and they have to live with the consequences .

Getting some cats bum faces at my wedding when I dared to have one glass of wine really pissed me off as did the well meaning lectures and advice from all the baby experts that everyone seems to turn into the minute you are expecting.

"Certainly no drinking of alcohol of any kind - and tobacco goes without saying."
I don't agree with LyingWitchWardrobe.
I am not overweight and don't smoke, but had the occasional glass of wine throughout my pregnancy. Like one at New Years Eve. And I don't think the health professionals suggest, total abstinence.

They do now, Oblomov, but only because they can't agree on a sensible limit - there is no real evidence to suggest that having 2-3 units of alcohol a week is going to cause a foetus any harm but to be completely on the safe side, they are recommending no alcohol at all.

Actually, I did have red wine regularly through the latter 2 trimesters of my pregnancy - partly because I lost my mum to cancer at 19w pg and the wine helped to reduce the stress levels (also dangerous for a foetus), and partly because I have thrombophilia and red wine is one of the things that can help to reduce unnecessary clotting (as well as the heparin jab I had daily from 16w on). But I didn't drink alcohol in the first trimester and I never drank more than one small glass at a time.

Oblomov... I was just using that flippant comment to 'ward off' the judgers who seem to have a 'scale' in their mind that it's ok to do this but not to do that and anybody who does that is irresponsible. I might well think that it's irresponsible to smoke or drink whilst pregnant but I'll apply that rule to myself and nobody else.

To explain, one of the women I see at the school gates makes comments about pregnant women smoking (I haven't seen one for years) but thinks nothing of smoking around her DCs... I just wish people would shut up and stop judging everybody else. They don't even have the courage of their convictions to say something - possibly because they'd get a well-deserved smack in the chops.

I don't drink, take drugs or smoke - I have no issue with other people choosing to do any of those things. It is simply none of my business.

I'm firmly of the belief that people make their choices and they're free to do so - it's not my place to judge them - and I don't.

my maternity notes say 1 - 3 units per week is fine - i assume thats the latest advice

Isnt there a difference between judging and stopping a woman from doing it though? I would judge massively if I saw an obviously pregnant woman smoking and drinking in a pub - she knows that she could be harming another human being, her own flesh and blood in fact, and yet carries on doing it. Once you decide to keep goin with a pregnancy you are not just responsible for yourself, but for another human being. I am sorry that the feminists dont like it, but unfortunately its just biology, and men cannot carry babies, so women have to take the responsibility for keeping them as healthy as they can for 9 months. Its just tough shit really.

However, I wouldnt go over to her and take the fag out of her mouth and actually stop her from doing it. I would think less of her though.

And yes, I agree that it is getting a bit ridiculous the whole, 'you cnt eat that your pregnant', thing, but I think there is a huge difference betweeen that and knowingly smoking cigarrettes and drinking alcohol, which are both proved to have harmful effects on an unborn foetus.

Agree with the poster who said it is madness that on MN it is a worse crime to judge than it is to knowingly poison a human being who is relying on you to keep them healthy.

Totally agree with Samstown.

What about drinking and driving? Is it wrong to judge someone who drinks and drives? Couldnt you just apply the whole 'their body their choice' argument to that? If they crash their car and die because they got pissed and then drove, surely that was their choice?

But we dont apply that argument to drink driving because there is a good chance that someone else could also be harmed by the drink drivers actions. And if a woman smokes or drinks during pregnancy, there is a good chance that someone else (ie. the unborn baby) could be harmed by the woman's actions.

So I really dont buy the whole 'their body, their choice' argument.

What form does your 'judging' take though? Do you tut? Do you glare? Do you try to educate the woman? Or just post on Mumsnet about it?

It's not a crime to judge, although it achieves nothing because you have no influence over somebody else, but if it gives you a nice warm feeling to feel superior over somebody else then who am I to judge?

my judging takes the form of not doing it myself. i dont live in an area where you see pregnant women smoking -but no i wouldnt tut or glare if i did see it. I would just think "what a shame she cant give up smoking for her unborn child". Wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

Drink driving is illegal, isn't it? It's not about a person's rights or their freedom to choose what happens to their body.

Many people would take away keys of somebody who was drunk, perhaps they'd ring the police, but I expect they'd do these things openly. It's up to the police then to come and breathalise the person and they will do the 'judging' of the alcohol level.

I expect there will be another half a dozen crazy examples of justification for 'judging'. No need really... knock yourselves out.

catgirl... I don't know that it's endemic within certain areas; I haven't seen an obviously pregnant woman smoking but I would imagine that a pregnant woman would feel very uncomfortable smoking in public anyway. Smokers already have the force of the law against them and are treated as pariahs of society.

I love the fact that some people's understanding of morality stops at legal - illegal. I think thats level 1 on Kohlbergs scale..........

let me just check lyingwitch. if a law WAS passed that made smoking when pregnant illegal THEN it would be ok to judge them because if something is illegal it is wrong

So Lying, the only reason you dont drink and drive (I am assuming you dont here) is because it is illegal?! And if it was legal you would get pissed and drive around quite happily because it would be your choice?!

Because my reasons for not drinking and driving have absolutely fuck all to do with the legal status of it and everything to do with the fact that if I hurt someone else I wouldnt be able to live with myself.

"OK, SpringChicken, you've convinced me to let the smug fuckwits smoke and drink all they like"

Excuse me? You're going to let them? Who on earth do you think you are with who's power and authority to allow or not allow pregnant women to do whatever the hell they like???

ooh aren't you clever knowing Kohlbergs scale! Except its level 2 stage 4 you mean. And people aren't talking about morality at all, but choices and judgement, which is not the same thing.

Good try though.

samstown... I don't drink at all. Even when I did, I wouldn't drink and drive (not any amount of alcohol) because I don't think it's right. I don't need a 'law' to tell me that. I'm not sure what your point is.

catgirl... Your definition of judging is pretty benign anyway, it doesn't achieve anything so what difference does it make?

I'm amused actually at the double standards of MN... judging a pregnant woman who smokes is perfectly acceptable.... on another thread, judging a woman with failed contraception a heinous thing to do.

I'm more and more convinced that AIBU is full of people for whom judging people they don't know is like oxygen. What a waste of time... it's not even interesting. I thought AIBU was about individual posters talking of their own experiences, not living vicariously through the experiences of other people. You live and learn, I suppose. I've wasted enough time today, that's for sure.

at MsTeak

Hoisted by your own petard, catgirl, nevermind.