Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not care if its her wedding/honeymoon, a pregnant woman shouldnt be smoking and drinking?

232 replies

biddysmama · 18/06/2011 23:21

my friend is 11 weeks pregnant, just got married and been on honeymoon. at the wedding she was smoking and drinking and was smoking and(she isnt quitting) drinking on her honeymoon... her last baby stopped growing when she was pregnant and she was induced early. mayb iabu but i really dont like it :(

OP posts:
TimeWasting · 19/06/2011 10:54

catgirl, you're a pro-lifer?

Pumpernickel10 · 19/06/2011 10:55

cat if they wish to take drug whilst pregnant that's their concern not mine

Pumpernickel10 · 19/06/2011 10:56

Cat does sound like a crazy pro lifer, your not queenmary are you? Had that crazy women the other day on here

fatlazymummy · 19/06/2011 10:56

timewasting is correct, not stupid. A foetus has no rights over the body of it's host [mother]. It doesn't become a child until it is born.

veritythebrave · 19/06/2011 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ginmakesitallok · 19/06/2011 10:58

The difference as I see it between smoking/drinking in pregnancy and taking crack/herion is that smoking and drinking do not cause an absolute harm to the foetus - they may increase the likliehood of low birthweight/ill health/etc etc - but smoking/drinking in pregnancy does NOT automatically cause these problems in all babies born to smoking/pregnant women. Where I live we have some of the highest rates of smoking pregnant women (around 30%) - but the rate of low weight babies isn't statistically different from the national average (??how does that work then). Taking crack/herion does cause a direct harm - addicted babies. It doesn't increase the risk of an addicted baby - it causes addicted babies.

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 10:58

Crack and heroin are illegal, no-one has a right to take them. Honestly, is that the best you can do?

Its not a difficult notion, lets see if we can make it understandable for you: ^a pregnant women can do exactly what a non-pregnant women can do, because having a foetus inside you does not make you public property" Capisce?

Most pregnant women choose to modify their behaviour, fair play to them, but if they choose not to, that is up to them.

Have I missed anything?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/06/2011 11:00

catgirl... I would say nothing, that's right, nothing. Nothing I could say would stop the woman from taking crack or heroin, would it? There is medical help available to get people off drugs and there is medical advice that informs women how to avoid pregnancy. My tutting at a drug-addicted, pregnant mother would achieve nothing. The difference is that it wouldn't make me feel better. You have no idea of a person's background or why they do things and whilst they have choice it is theirs to make - good or bad.

TeamDamon · 19/06/2011 11:00

'what has that got to do with anything, Damon?' - if you're referring to my comment about women not being allowed to mourn miscarriages and stillbirths as the death of a child since timewasting argued that a foetus was not a child, it is relevant because it is the next logical step of the discussion.

I can see where you'd have trouble with that however, since your method of debate seems to consist of telling others that their opinion is of no importance whenever it doesn't happen to jibe with your own.

catgirl1976 · 19/06/2011 11:03

no i am not a pro-lifer. i am pro choice.
I just judge women who smoke as being irresponsible and whilst it is none of my business what they do I don't have to applaud them for exercising thier "right" to do whatever the hell they want and i have the "right" to judge what they are doing as wrong. Luckily I dont ever have to see women like that so its not really an issue to me. I just can't bear the "women have a right to do what ever they want" argument when it is used to defend something that is indefensible. That argument would stretch to their being nothing wrong with taking crack when pregnant despite the obvious harm it casues to babies AFTER they are born and become children

TimeWasting · 19/06/2011 11:03

TeamDamon, I'm not stopping women from mourning the loss of their babies.
In fact, I'm not stopping women from doing anything. That's kind of the point of this argument, after all.

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 11:03

Oh lordy. You know how you can tell a foetus isn't a child? Its because its inside someone elses body. And again with "not allowed to mourn"? YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO!

Foetus, not a child, legally. Up to every woman what they view it as WHICH IS THE ENTIRE FUCKING POINT OF THE THREAD.

It's like talking to a plank, really it is.

TimeWasting · 19/06/2011 11:05

catgirl, you think it's ok to have an abortion if you choose, but not ok to smoke while pregnant? Confused

kenbarlowslovestick · 19/06/2011 11:05

each to there own and i have quite a few friends who never managed to give up smoking when pregnant one even carried on smoking spliffs alot but i do think its really sad and selfish not to be able to give up for 9 poxy months to give your baby the best chance possible,i was a heavy smoker by the way so understand the addiction but as soon as i saw that test result i never smoked again as what i was carrying was more of a drive than the addiction

catgirl1976 · 19/06/2011 11:07

Yes. I think people have the right to have an abortion. I think people who choose to have a pregancy and then smoke during that pregancy are irresponsible. Is that difficult for you to understand?

veritythebrave · 19/06/2011 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HipHopOpotomus · 19/06/2011 11:08

Lots of women smoke, drink, eat oysters and Brie etc in early PG before they know they are pg.

I wouldn't like it but it's her call!

TimeWasting · 19/06/2011 11:11

catgirl, it's an odd attitude is all. One might read it as though you'd prefer a foetus to be aborted than have a smoking mother.

catgirl1976 · 19/06/2011 11:12

No I am not saying that. What I am saying is that....

I. Think. Women. Who. Smoke. When. Pregant. Are. Irresponsible.

That is my opinion. I don't think me thinking that will stop them. Its just my opinion. Do you see?

DilysPrice · 19/06/2011 11:21

I think catgirl has a point - an abortion (or horseriding or downhill skiing or anything else that carries a risk of miscarriage) does not affect any person except the woman - I would not judge at all.

Smoking, drinking to excess, eating raw steak, changing the cat's litter tray or injecting heroin risks harm to a (future) person and that has moral consequences, so my natural instinct is to judge. But it's an incredibly slippery slope, as you can see from some very worrying pieces of legislation coming out of the US, and from a feminist POV it's a trend that has terrifying implications for women's autonomy.

TimeWasting · 19/06/2011 11:23

catgirl, you have the right to your opinion. Of course, you don't have the right to not have that opinion challenged in a debate such as this.

I think not being able to understand the possibility that grey areas exist is, well, frankly stupid. I wouldn't use that word normally, but you started it.

A woman's right to do whatever she chooses with her own body is more important than whatever that choice might be.

mree · 19/06/2011 11:30

worra, sorry I'd gone to bed. I think you're using me to get away from the original topic. I was an ideal weight for me, I still have a very healthy diet, I've made every possible change to my life before becoming pregnant. You're not going to convince me I'm BU I'm afraid, even if I was dangerously overweight I STILL wouldn't be putting my child at even a fraction of the risk of a smoker.

catgirl1976 · 19/06/2011 11:30

I do understand grey areas exist. I do not mind having my opinion challenged.

I do not have to look at a pregnant woman smoking and smile and think "ah lovely - a woman exercising her right to do what she chooses with her body. Wonderful - thats the most important thing in the world"

I get to look at her and think "i think women who smoke when pregant are irresposible". I get to think that becuase its my opinion. I even get to do that whilst agreeing with DilysPrice that some of the US legislation is concerning.

Timewasting - if a women chooses to use her body for example for hardcore s&m pornography with heavy rape fantasies would you still happy to support that choice?

MsTeak · 19/06/2011 11:41

if its legal, yes. If she freely chooses with no co-ercion from anyone else.

The right to bodily integrity is fundamental.

fatlazymummy · 19/06/2011 11:42

catgirl it is inevitable that if we have freedom to choose then some people will make the 'wrong' choice. That is the same with every situation.
Pregnant women have the same legal rights as other adults. If cigarettes and alcohol are legal then they have the same rights to choose to use them as any other adult. All we can do is to educate so that more people make the right choice.
In answer to your question about hardcore pornography, yes if that is legal and a free choiceIt's not a question about being happy about it. People have the right to make choices whether I like them or not.

Swipe left for the next trending thread