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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if I should accept this 'proposal' of marriage?

286 replies

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 00:32

Namechanger. Non-troll credentials: shit pouffe; blind dates at the penguin enclosure; Box room troll; JudgeFlounce etc. I am going to try to be succinct but don't want to drip feed so bear with me please. There's a lot I could dripfeed about so this going to be really difficult.

So me and x-DP (1 DC almost 2 years old) have been split for about 10 months. He is a secret atheist but his family are Muslim. His dad died when he was 6, his mum is a religious loon. He would never be able to tell his Mum he is not a believer because her view is you are born a Muslim and he fears her reaction would kill or injure her.

On being told he was in a relationship with a white non-Muslim girl - not me his previous GF (mum is also racist - he should be marrying someone from a village from her homeland and despite living here since early 1960s is not integrated and entirely reliant on her small network of friends from home who are in the UK, which is a great source of sadness and difficulty for x-DP) she waited outside his office every evening for 2 weeks and tore at her clothes wailing when he tried to leave work. xDP was made to sleep in her bed with her until he was 13. Nothing sexual but he was effectively made to be her companion in replacement of father. He wet the bed most nights until the point at which he could sleep in his own bed. She is the epitome of an emotionally blackmailing control freak.

When I was pregnant xDP was v afraid of telling her. Once he even got very nasty with me (not physically abusive) by telling me once he told her she would be at my door every day (we didn't/don't live together) once the baby was born and she would demand to do everything and I wouldn't even get to hold the baby and there was nothing he could do about that. At the time I was scared (8 months pregnant and hormonal). In one of our few Relate session as we were parting I pointed out to him he had effectively tried to transfer his fear of her onto me during that outburst. He didn't acknowledge that but I think it struck home.

He told me that his mother would view me as an evil white whore (sounds vindictive but just reality really) and would probably not want to know her GC even if he told her. DC was born, xDP and I split up when DC was 6 months and we have reached a pretty amicable situation where xDP comes to mine straight after work 3x a week to do dinner, bath and bedtime. A few months ago he told me he had finally told his mum about existence of DC. I think she took to her bed and was ill for a bit but she didn't want to know or meet GC. My parents and I breathed a sigh of relief. xDP, not being Muslim in belief, had not applied any pressure for circumcision (and would not have got it) but has asked that DC not be allowed to pork. I have agreed for as long as DC's diet is 'controlled' by us I am happy not to feed him pork. If DC gets to his first school birthday party and scoffs a load of cocktail sausages, it will be his choice and not ours by that point. xDP agreed. DC has a registered Islamic name on BC which also has an Old Testament equivalent and is called both. DC has both our surnames to reflect both heritages. Because neither of us is religious DC won't be actively participating in any religion unless he grows to want to, happy for him to visit churches/mosques/do assembly/do 'Christmas'/ do 'Eid' all as cultural experiences with religious background but I'm afraid if he asks what it's all about I would say well some people believe this and because of that we all get a nice holiday off work. xDP is up for that.

So we're pootling along ok. I don't dislike xDP. I think he is a person trapped by his background and circumstance and while I think he is a coward for how he cannot deal with his mother (and it is a huge part of why we split) I would never want to be the reason why someone was excluded from their family, unless that was their choice. So.....skip to the end.

xDP dropped the bombshell tonight that his mother has flown in a friend from home, and this friend (who she takes all her advice from - it's a bit of a freaky Rasputin set-up where this women is believed to have religious visions and xDP's M hangs on her every word) has declare me and xDP must get married to legitimise DC in eyes of Islam. It would not be an officially legal marriage in eyes of law - more like in mum's living room with an Imam. His M is Shi'a. xDP said tonight he was 'passing this information on'. I said what was I supposed to think of that? What if I wanted to marry a Muslim in the future? He says it is just a religious ceremony to please his Mum and will enable his Mum to meet our DC and include him in her family. When we were in love xDP was adamant (as was I) that in telling his mum we were together I would not have to convert.

AIBU to refuse to do this even if it means his mum will not acknowledge our DC? Should I get 'married' to give DC a chance of relationship with grandmother?

Also a plea for advice from any Muslims out there as to what this 'marriage' is and means? (ps. I am aware that xDP's Mum is painted in an awful light - just to avoid the BNP contingent piling in, I do not see her as representative of any other Muslims I know of which there are many)

OP posts:
Salles · 14/06/2011 02:56

Hi MyNameIsStacey

Why is your ex even mentioning this to you and putting you in this position? Why would he even 'pass the information on' given his upbringing?

It sounds as though you were getting on alright otherwise, why bring his mother in on your happy family when the thought of involvement with her has caused such anxiety in the past?

It just sounds really odd.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 03:01

dontquoteme well it's things like other posters have mentioned above - how can you 'backdate' the marriage as if the illegitimacy never occured in the eyes of Shariah?

xDPs view of Islam is v low - he thinks that it is all about lipservice and for show - his explanation of it so far has been that for her to accept and see and tell her community about her GS he has to have been legitimised and the way to do this is through Shariah marriage. But I still can't see why an Imam is going to go for that?

OP posts:
MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 03:04

Damn I should have listened to my fricking Linguaphone Urdu tapes. I am getting annoyed now that I am up worrying about this, listening to DS breathe and imagining never hearing or seeing him again. I would like to write her a letter if I could and explain to her how things would work. Her english is not great and my Urdu is worse (ie non-existent) so all translation would be done by crazy Rasputin friend or xDP and who can I trust in that equation?

OP posts:
thelittlestkiwi · 14/06/2011 03:48

I think marrying your xP can only cause more heartache. I would be very wary of this woman.

Does your DS have a passport? If not, it may be worth getting one simply so your xP or his mother can't apply for one without you knowing. I'm not sure what documentation you need but this is one of those things where it pays to be cautious.

TeenieLeek · 14/06/2011 04:14

Could you employ a professional translator? Sounds like it might be worth the investment.
Have you ever actually met the woman? Perhaps you need to arrange a meeting with her, ex- DP and DC in a neutral location so that she can see you and humanize the situation. Not quite the same but a friend's very traditional Chinese mother said she would never accept his being gay, but came round completely when she met his partner and saw him as a person not a concept.

Are you worried that DP will leave DC alone with his mother, or that he will stand by and let the imam near him with a knife? If the latter, that is surely something to address with him.

Don't even contemplate the "marriage " though, I agree wholeheartedly with the other posters who say that religion is a form of mental illness and the more people who can avoid it the better a place the world will be. I don't mean that we should victimize or shun the religious, just politely refuse to subscribe and ( controversial, I know) educate our children not to.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 14/06/2011 04:42

If you have any notion of meeting up with your exDP & his mother anywhere, you are best advised NOT to take your ds as once she claps eyes on him she will not give up her quest.

The woman is fruitiloops, but don't underestimate her as I have no doubt that she is also very cunning and deceitful despite her devotion to the Shi'ite faith.

Morloth · 14/06/2011 04:50

That sounds like a whole pile of crazy that I would be keeping my kid as far from as physically possible.

As he is such a wet blanket with his mother I would also under no circumstances let him be taking the kid anywhere alone without a direct court order.

I wouldn't trust him to not do a runner with her and my kid.

NunTheWiser · 14/06/2011 04:58

I'd be seriously suspicious of her motives. Would marrying your xDP and then not raising your DS in the nominal faith of his father give him (and by extension his grandmother) grounds to go for custody at a later date?
This all sounds like the first steps in exerting the same control over you and your son that she has over your xDP. I would run a mile.

spiderslegs · 14/06/2011 05:19

What everyone else says.

Really.

Stay as far away as you can from this woman, religion or not, she is not a person you want your DC anywhere near.

Don't write her a letter.

Do not engage with her.

Ever.

DO NOT consider any lunatic plans of hers.

Please.

allhailtheaubergine · 14/06/2011 05:33

Stacey - what do you think ex-P's reaction will be if you say a firm "absolutely not" to his plans?

allhailtheaubergine · 14/06/2011 05:37

I think you feel a bit sorry for MiL. You think she wants to be able to accept her grandchild but can't because the community will frown on her giving her blessing to your illegitimate and non-muslim son.

You think that by going ahead with this marriage plan then the old lady will be able to be granny to her grandson and no one will disapprove of her for it.

I think you are being dangerously naive.

allhailtheaubergine · 14/06/2011 05:38

You don't have to come up with a 'good enough' reason why not. You don't owe her anything. The only person you owe anything to is you son - you owe it to him to protect him from this lunacy.

It's getting MARRIED FFS! You don't have to provide reasons why not - not wanting to is a plenty good enough reason.

Finallygotaroundtoit · 14/06/2011 05:50

Your whole view of this woman has come from what XP has told you about her.You have never spoken to her.

How do you know he has actually told you the truth?

Could he be using her as a convenient excuse to get what he actually wants?
He managed to stop you going abroad, now it looks like he's trying to get you to marry him.Be wary.

TheHumanCatapult · 14/06/2011 06:07

#The Pork thing well that is more culture than religion ( i know in lot of countrys it is seen as a dirty animal .

But I would say a flat no .As would means that there would a be another request and then another .

You sound very sensible and very accomidating with your ds and am pretty sure he can decide for himself at a later date .If he wants to be relgious and if so which .

GreenTeapot · 14/06/2011 06:29

No way. Your DS is already at risk, indirectly, because I think it's highly unlikely that you can trust your exP to resist if his mother puts him under any specific pressure regarding your DS. Agreeing to this mad scheme only sets a precedent and opens the door to more influence.

You are denying your DS nothing by keeping him away from her. When he's old enough to make up his own mind about her then let him. Until then it's your job to keep him well away from her and the knife.

thumbwitch · 14/06/2011 06:41

I have to agree with everyone else, sorry. Stay AWAY from the scarywoman.
She might be your DS's biological grandmother but she sounds scary as hell - do you really want your DS to come into her sphere of influence now you've seen what a mess it's made of your exP?? REALLY????

He will lose nothing but staying away from her and gain much - he can choose to try and see her when he's old enough, as Green Teapot suggests - by which time hopefully he'll have formed enough of his own character and opinions that she won't be able to indoctrinate and subjugate him.

Please think of your DS - he has a lovely family already - he doesn't need someone like her in his life, she's only going to cause misery, dissent, division and more misery. She's already started it by sending this message via her own son - you're upset, you're confused, you don't know what is best - YES YOU DO!! Staying away is best.

YOU are not preventing this woman from having a relationship with her DGS - SHE is. Through her own wilful prejudices. So - she wants to see him - she does it on YOUR terms, not hers. Or it's an absolute No.

Georgimama · 14/06/2011 07:33

Definitely get a passport for your DS and keep it hidden safe. Under no circumstances let XDP near it. Does he have parental responsibility?

NO NO NO to the ceremonial marriage idea - it's ceremonial in your eyes but in hers (and perhaps XDPs) it is probably a true marriage - it's an English civil marriage they don't see as legal and binding. You go through with this, in the eyes of granny's community you will be his wife. NO NO NO.

CurrySpice · 14/06/2011 07:42

I agree with everyone else. Don't do it. It sounds very dangerous both for the wellbeing of your dc, and for you from a legal pov. Goodness only knows how she might use the "marriage" as leverage in the future.

dontquotem3 · 14/06/2011 07:49

OP, could you PM me (I don't know how to do that yet). You seem like you have specific questions to which I'd like to attempt to get you specific answers. It sounds like you wish to put your mind at rest.

What Salles said does make sense to an extent.

spookshowangel · 14/06/2011 07:49

do you still love your xdp, because this is an awfully flimsy reason to get married. this woman disowned your child just because of who you are, now she wants into his life but all on her terms. she doesnt get to make demands, she gets to come cap in hand and beg forgiveness and ask to be involved. you do not have to make concessions to appease her social guilt or look good for her muslim friends and family. she either wants her gs as is or not.
your xdp should be told that and should back you up, he is a right shit for putting you in this position.
ask your self is your ds really missing out by not having this woman in his life?

TandB · 14/06/2011 07:53

This is a woman who you do not trust. She does not sound as though she has anything positive to offer your DS and if she has contact you will be permanently anxious about what she might do.

She won't see your DS unless you marry her son.

Problem solved. Don't marry her son and she will stay out of your lives.

MoreBeta · 14/06/2011 07:56

Take the whole 'muslim' issue out of the equation.

Now ask yourself whether any kind of marriage under these circumstances would be acceptable? Not in a million years!

squeakytoy · 14/06/2011 08:02

You would be insane to go along with any of these requests from your ex. There will be some ulterior motive behind it, and I doubt it will be one that you will like.

Stay as far away as you can. Your child is not missing out on anything by the grandmother being absent in his life.

TotalChaos · 14/06/2011 08:04

agree with the others, run a mile. your xp and his mum's dysfunctional relationship is NOT your problem, or your responsibility in any way.

Morloth · 14/06/2011 08:05

Agree about the passport.

I think the Muslim thing is irrelevant actually.

Controlling, abusive mothers come in all shapes, colours and flavours.

She isn't the problem anyway, the xDP is.