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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if I should accept this 'proposal' of marriage?

286 replies

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 00:32

Namechanger. Non-troll credentials: shit pouffe; blind dates at the penguin enclosure; Box room troll; JudgeFlounce etc. I am going to try to be succinct but don't want to drip feed so bear with me please. There's a lot I could dripfeed about so this going to be really difficult.

So me and x-DP (1 DC almost 2 years old) have been split for about 10 months. He is a secret atheist but his family are Muslim. His dad died when he was 6, his mum is a religious loon. He would never be able to tell his Mum he is not a believer because her view is you are born a Muslim and he fears her reaction would kill or injure her.

On being told he was in a relationship with a white non-Muslim girl - not me his previous GF (mum is also racist - he should be marrying someone from a village from her homeland and despite living here since early 1960s is not integrated and entirely reliant on her small network of friends from home who are in the UK, which is a great source of sadness and difficulty for x-DP) she waited outside his office every evening for 2 weeks and tore at her clothes wailing when he tried to leave work. xDP was made to sleep in her bed with her until he was 13. Nothing sexual but he was effectively made to be her companion in replacement of father. He wet the bed most nights until the point at which he could sleep in his own bed. She is the epitome of an emotionally blackmailing control freak.

When I was pregnant xDP was v afraid of telling her. Once he even got very nasty with me (not physically abusive) by telling me once he told her she would be at my door every day (we didn't/don't live together) once the baby was born and she would demand to do everything and I wouldn't even get to hold the baby and there was nothing he could do about that. At the time I was scared (8 months pregnant and hormonal). In one of our few Relate session as we were parting I pointed out to him he had effectively tried to transfer his fear of her onto me during that outburst. He didn't acknowledge that but I think it struck home.

He told me that his mother would view me as an evil white whore (sounds vindictive but just reality really) and would probably not want to know her GC even if he told her. DC was born, xDP and I split up when DC was 6 months and we have reached a pretty amicable situation where xDP comes to mine straight after work 3x a week to do dinner, bath and bedtime. A few months ago he told me he had finally told his mum about existence of DC. I think she took to her bed and was ill for a bit but she didn't want to know or meet GC. My parents and I breathed a sigh of relief. xDP, not being Muslim in belief, had not applied any pressure for circumcision (and would not have got it) but has asked that DC not be allowed to pork. I have agreed for as long as DC's diet is 'controlled' by us I am happy not to feed him pork. If DC gets to his first school birthday party and scoffs a load of cocktail sausages, it will be his choice and not ours by that point. xDP agreed. DC has a registered Islamic name on BC which also has an Old Testament equivalent and is called both. DC has both our surnames to reflect both heritages. Because neither of us is religious DC won't be actively participating in any religion unless he grows to want to, happy for him to visit churches/mosques/do assembly/do 'Christmas'/ do 'Eid' all as cultural experiences with religious background but I'm afraid if he asks what it's all about I would say well some people believe this and because of that we all get a nice holiday off work. xDP is up for that.

So we're pootling along ok. I don't dislike xDP. I think he is a person trapped by his background and circumstance and while I think he is a coward for how he cannot deal with his mother (and it is a huge part of why we split) I would never want to be the reason why someone was excluded from their family, unless that was their choice. So.....skip to the end.

xDP dropped the bombshell tonight that his mother has flown in a friend from home, and this friend (who she takes all her advice from - it's a bit of a freaky Rasputin set-up where this women is believed to have religious visions and xDP's M hangs on her every word) has declare me and xDP must get married to legitimise DC in eyes of Islam. It would not be an officially legal marriage in eyes of law - more like in mum's living room with an Imam. His M is Shi'a. xDP said tonight he was 'passing this information on'. I said what was I supposed to think of that? What if I wanted to marry a Muslim in the future? He says it is just a religious ceremony to please his Mum and will enable his Mum to meet our DC and include him in her family. When we were in love xDP was adamant (as was I) that in telling his mum we were together I would not have to convert.

AIBU to refuse to do this even if it means his mum will not acknowledge our DC? Should I get 'married' to give DC a chance of relationship with grandmother?

Also a plea for advice from any Muslims out there as to what this 'marriage' is and means? (ps. I am aware that xDP's Mum is painted in an awful light - just to avoid the BNP contingent piling in, I do not see her as representative of any other Muslims I know of which there are many)

OP posts:
BitOfFun · 14/06/2011 01:39

It means that if you post a website address, it will be clickable.

dontquotem3 · 14/06/2011 01:41

OP within Islam ( according to Shi'a school of thought) there are two types of marriage. One is permanent marriage (nikah) and temporary marriage (muta). Has your xDP mentioned either one of these terms?

dontquotem3 · 14/06/2011 01:43

Oh, thank you BoF.

garlicbutter · 14/06/2011 01:46

No, no, no!

You both sound like very nice, surprisingly sane people (surprising in the case of XP, given the obstacles.) Mum does not. You'd be crazy to want her in your child's life under any circumstances. Following the prophetess-led ceremony, she will perceive DC as having been inculcated and will not leave him alone.

XP's own prophecy will come true.

As she's gone to all this trouble, do you think for one minute she intends to let you continue bringing DC up as a normal English child? She's done this for a reason - to her mind, it resolves the conflict between her moral rejection of her grandson and her intense desire to control him.

You mustn't let her have her resolution.

To XP: I'm sorry your mum's still pulling everything out of the hat to regain control of you and yours. I understand it must be incredibly hard to resist the demands that keep on coming! Please stand firm on this, with Stacey's backing, to save your son from a suffocating life of confusion.

I hardly ever "tell people what to do", it's more usually a matter of helping them think things through. But this is a no-brainer.

LolaRennt · 14/06/2011 01:47

Temporary marriage?? Confused

OP I think there might be a risk of your (potential) mil trying to push for your xp to get custody etc so as to raise him "correctly".

If she has refused to integrate and does not like the culture I don't think she would approve of you raising your son in your own culture. I know this is slightly far fetched but if she is unhinged what if she tried to kidnap him or something?

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 01:48

Dontquote I am guessing I would be expected to pretend that I am a follower of 'The Book' - from the little I understand Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women if they are believers in one of the Abrahamite religions (so a Jew or a Christian). I am not baptised, confirmed, have never sung in a choir (they would have paid me not to), have never taken communion and I am quite set as being atheist. I'm not a raving Dworkinite. However, my xDP is a raving Dworkinite (just not in front of his mum - he drives her at majalis and then will pretend to go in but because men and women are separate will go and hide in his car or has on occasion driven to mine before picking her up) and (believe it or not) is an extremely intelligent person and has even spent large chunks of his time, arguing with Muslims on Islam websites against all religion but specifically picking holes in Islam because that's what he knows.

(I know this thread is getting more bizarre as I write. A few friends of mine who are MNers will probably see this and recognise me immediately!)

But when I say she is a religious loon, she really is. This is all about 'the community' being able to accept her accepting her GS. she has to look good/religiously correct to her friends. This is what xDP said.

OP posts:
topazmcgonagall · 14/06/2011 01:49

No way should you go along with this. A relationship with this woman is not going to benefit your DC, and will just cause anguish to all concerned.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 01:52

Dontquote Not the arabic terms you are using BUT yes there was talk of 'temporary' marriage tonight (which apparently can be as non-temporary as 99 years but no more!) - you sound like you know some stuff - please spill! Am listening!

And to all posters saying no, I know, but I need to find a way that for xDP this is not cutting his family out of our DS's life completely even though I feel like this is not possible.

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 14/06/2011 01:54

Oh, good call, dontquotem! Muslims can marry anybody from one of the monotheistic faiths, can't they?
If that's right, OP - should you be a committed atheist, or an animist or a Hindu, he can't Wink

Oh, and if you went through with it you'd have to sign DC up for a full-on religious upbringing. I know Christian baptisms do the same thing, but you'll have granny and her imam on your case over it.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 01:55

I feel like this is all going to force things in a direction I want to go. So even if I say no to marriage, I am going to have to go to a solicitor, get a proper access document drawn up, get the CSA involved etc. xDP currently pays £600 pcm (less than CSA by about £100 - £150 but am not bothered by this - he often buys clothes and toys for our DS and we swap toys between houses to get a mix etc.)

OP posts:
Jux · 14/06/2011 01:55

Don't do it under any circumstances. Why on earth would you? Don't mention it yourself, but if he brings up the subject just laugh. If he presses further tell him you thought it was a joke and that he is being ridiculous.

SlobbyBOB · 14/06/2011 01:58

No, not ever.

Look the way she has been with your xDP, do you think she would have a positive role your DS's life.

It's a sure fire way for her to try an exert influence over your DS by proxy via your xDP.

"It is important he sees the land of his father".

yeah right.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 01:58

Awwww shit. I thought we were doing ok you know? We both love our DS, we've had rocky patches since splitting up (I declined a second interview for job which would have involved me travelling with our DS to India and Washington for about first 10 months of the job because xDP said he would not visit and I was effectively taking our DS away from him, which when I realised the strength of his feeling I did not want to do....am still job hunting now) but I felt as if we have both been guided by what is best for OUR Ds. Until now.

OP posts:
ThisIsANiceCage · 14/06/2011 02:00

Mm, this may be entirely off-beam, but xDP is reminding me strongly of an ex-friend.

She was (1) very religious, became (2) atheist and anti-religious while going out with an atheist, then (3) became very religious when she broke up with him - seeking ordination, no less.

She took on the colour of the strongest person near her, or the person she most wanted to appease/seduce.

This whole "I'm an atheist but our no-religion DS must follow religious food rules" does make me wonder if xDP's doing the same. He's agreeing with you about religious things etc, so you imagine you're on the same page. But these "convictions" may change, and anyway clearly aren't enough to overcome his fear of his mother.

Frankly I wouldn't give him any more toehold than is absolutely necessary for your son's health and happiness.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 02:03

Sorry just want to correct typo above:

I feel like this is all going to force things in a direction I DON'T want to go

OP posts:
MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 02:06

SlobbyBob - xDP dislikes homeland or spending time there. Cannot get his head round the way people say yes yes to something even though they are quite clearly lying and have no intention of doing whatever it is they have said yes to. I have no experience of homeland to know whether this is actually true (think it's a case of cultural difference where it is considered too rude to say no and politer to say yes and then not do whatever it is!) but yes, all fears are beginning to surface about wanting to parade our DS to relatives back home.

xDP has PR - is on birth certificate.

OP posts:
MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 02:09

NiceCage xDP says pork thing is about him (himself and our DS) having a toehold in cultural background. I also think that despite all atheism, pork has been deeply drummed into him that it is so repulsive that it does indeed repulse him and it repulses him to think of our DS eating it. However, he does accept that if our DS chooses to eat it when he has more choice over his diet it will be out of our hands.

OP posts:
ThisIsANiceCage · 14/06/2011 02:11

Sorry, don't mean to suggest there's anything wrong with "religious" in general - but in this case it could mean granny and friends.

ThisIsANiceCage · 14/06/2011 02:11

x-post

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 02:26

NiceCage M also has lots of strange dietary rules (apparently very common in India/Pakistan) about certain foods being designated as hot or cold and you cannot eat this thing after that thing and hot and cold things together. Hot or cold foods are nothing to do with the actual temperature of the food.

She also has pronounced OCD according to xDP. When I say she is a religious loon I don't mean to imply she is a loon because she is religious. She is both religious and a loon - and a lot of her looniness is expressed through her religion. Religiosity is very closely related to OCD in psychological terms from what I've read. Read a great book about a girl called The Devil's in the detail of her growing up and going completely over board to her relaxed Jewish family's astonishment with a teen OCD religious frenzy and how it was all connected to the OCD - feeling clean, pure, godliness is next to cleanliness etc.

OP posts:
Thruaglassdarkly · 14/06/2011 02:33

Run, run and keep on running until you are sure that you've outran these crazies!!! And then run some more. xxx

Thruaglassdarkly · 14/06/2011 02:39

My response is on the back of living 2 years in the middle east btw and a lot of experience of middle eastern men and their families, both personally and thru western friends.

MyNameIsStacey · 14/06/2011 02:46

I can't 'run away' though can I. Our DS is ours so I can't run away from xDP and nor would I want to for sake of DS. Oh FFS why is she doing this? Why can't she just do what she did last time, throw a big tantrum hissy fit and refuse to acknowledge DS's existence.

I fear that the ties that bind xDP to his M are very very tight. I think he lives his life in deep deep conflict between his public (not at home with M) life as a very smart, well educated bloke with his private life with M. He has had counselling for this (but only because it was free at work he maintains, not because he 'needed' it - although previously he had told me he had gone to counselling around time he told M about previous GF because he had a bit of mid-life crises and had found himself crying in shopping centres - I think he changes what he wants to tell me at the time because he is constantly trying to reconcile himself but can't - I don't think he is a morally dishonest person)

OP posts:
5DollarShake · 14/06/2011 02:50

Please - no.

YOU are not denying your DC anything. You are happy for him to see anyone and everyone in his family. SHE is the one making a choice not to see him - can you see the difference?

Please don't go through with this.

dontquotem3 · 14/06/2011 02:52

OP, as far as I am aware temporary marriage cannot last so long that you might as well call it a permanent marriage, so 99 years is out of the question!

You asked me to 'spill'. What is it exactly that you want to know?

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