to ask if I should accept this 'proposal' of marriage?

[MyNameIsStacey]

Namechanger. Non-troll credentials: shit pouffe; blind dates at the penguin enclosure; Box room troll; JudgeFlounce etc. I am going to try to be succinct but don't want to drip feed so bear with me please. There's a lot I could dripfeed about so this going to be really difficult.

So me and x-DP (1 DC almost 2 years old) have been split for about 10 months. He is a secret atheist but his family are Muslim. His dad died when he was 6, his mum is a religious loon. He would never be able to tell his Mum he is not a believer because her view is you are born a Muslim and he fears her reaction would kill or injure her.

On being told he was in a relationship with a white non-Muslim girl - not me his previous GF (mum is also racist - he should be marrying someone from a village from her homeland and despite living here since early 1960s is not integrated and entirely reliant on her small network of friends from home who are in the UK, which is a great source of sadness and difficulty for x-DP) she waited outside his office every evening for 2 weeks and tore at her clothes wailing when he tried to leave work. xDP was made to sleep in her bed with her until he was 13. Nothing sexual but he was effectively made to be her companion in replacement of father. He wet the bed most nights until the point at which he could sleep in his own bed. She is the epitome of an emotionally blackmailing control freak.

When I was pregnant xDP was v afraid of telling her. Once he even got very nasty with me (not physically abusive) by telling me once he told her she would be at my door every day (we didn't/don't live together) once the baby was born and she would demand to do everything and I wouldn't even get to hold the baby and there was nothing he could do about that. At the time I was scared (8 months pregnant and hormonal). In one of our few Relate session as we were parting I pointed out to him he had effectively tried to transfer his fear of her onto me during that outburst. He didn't acknowledge that but I think it struck home.

He told me that his mother would view me as an evil white whore (sounds vindictive but just reality really) and would probably not want to know her GC even if he told her. DC was born, xDP and I split up when DC was 6 months and we have reached a pretty amicable situation where xDP comes to mine straight after work 3x a week to do dinner, bath and bedtime. A few months ago he told me he had finally told his mum about existence of DC. I think she took to her bed and was ill for a bit but she didn't want to know or meet GC. My parents and I breathed a sigh of relief. xDP, not being Muslim in belief, had not applied any pressure for circumcision (and would not have got it) but has asked that DC not be allowed to pork. I have agreed for as long as DC's diet is 'controlled' by us I am happy not to feed him pork. If DC gets to his first school birthday party and scoffs a load of cocktail sausages, it will be his choice and not ours by that point. xDP agreed. DC has a registered Islamic name on BC which also has an Old Testament equivalent and is called both. DC has both our surnames to reflect both heritages. Because neither of us is religious DC won't be actively participating in any religion unless he grows to want to, happy for him to visit churches/mosques/do assembly/do 'Christmas'/ do 'Eid' all as cultural experiences with religious background but I'm afraid if he asks what it's all about I would say well some people believe this and because of that we all get a nice holiday off work. xDP is up for that.

So we're pootling along ok. I don't dislike xDP. I think he is a person trapped by his background and circumstance and while I think he is a coward for how he cannot deal with his mother (and it is a huge part of why we split) I would never want to be the reason why someone was excluded from their family, unless that was their choice. So.....skip to the end.

xDP dropped the bombshell tonight that his mother has flown in a friend from home, and this friend (who she takes all her advice from - it's a bit of a freaky Rasputin set-up where this women is believed to have religious visions and xDP's M hangs on her every word) has declare me and xDP must get married to legitimise DC in eyes of Islam. It would not be an officially legal marriage in eyes of law - more like in mum's living room with an Imam. His M is Shi'a. xDP said tonight he was 'passing this information on'. I said what was I supposed to think of that? What if I wanted to marry a Muslim in the future? He says it is just a religious ceremony to please his Mum and will enable his Mum to meet our DC and include him in her family. When we were in love xDP was adamant (as was I) that in telling his mum we were together I would not have to convert.

AIBU to refuse to do this even if it means his mum will not acknowledge our DC? Should I get 'married' to give DC a chance of relationship with grandmother?

Also a plea for advice from any Muslims out there as to what this 'marriage' is and means? (ps. I am aware that xDP's Mum is painted in an awful light - just to avoid the BNP contingent piling in, I do not see her as representative of any other Muslims I know of which there are many)

MyNameIsStacey, so many replies have suggested that you run, run far away. I agree.
I can't see your xDP's mother adding any amount of quality to your DC's life.
Don't feel sorry/guilty into thinking she will turn into Mary Poppins and your DS will miss out on a loving relationship. Loving? This woman knows nothing about love unless it's to use it as a weapon.
Don't be fooled into thinking she's a complete loon though - she knows exactly what she is doing (it works very well for her).
I also think that in this mother-son relationship, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree?
Your xDP chooses to be manipulated by his mother. Fact. And living with her for so many years (under her 'guidance'), he has bound to have learnt something along the way. He might not even be aware of it.
You don't know what can of worms will be opened if you marry so best to avoid any road that leads to that.

There isn't anything on your shoulders other than the responsibility you have as a mother. Blow-off the emotional blackmail. You don't need to make anyone else feel happy/safe/loved, certainly not an overcooked fruitcake your xDP's mother. You owe her nothing. Zip.

You sound as if you have your head on your shoulders but when in doubt, remember that you are in control here. You. Good luck.

Well maybe you weren't TTC but I'm assuming that the sex was mutual, consensual, and not a one-off.

No method of contraception is failsafe. By choosing to have sex with you he was also choosing the possibility of a baby with you (and the associated religious implications). An abortion would not (in the eyes of god) have changed that he conceived the child in the first place; rather is retrospective social window-dressing much in the way that this proposed 'marriage' would be.

It's not your religion so don't beat yourself up about his choice. As a catholic (ish) myself I never had sex with anyone before I was married whose child I would not have been willing to have. It was his choice; you did not force yourself on him. It's not up to you to make it right in the eyes of his god (who he professes not to believe in in any case!)

Good luck with the lawyers

(and re social window dressing etc - I'm assuming he didn't propose when you made it clear you were going to keep your baby...which he would've if it really mattered to him - it's only now that M minds that he suddenly minds...)

Genuine question - why did you give your son an Islamic name?

My friend is not married to the muslim father of her child. His family are very accepting of their grand-daughter.

It is just about control and her way. You do not have to do this it is her choice to see her grand-son or not.

Do not be bullied or controlled she is not doing it out of any love for you.

I've been reading this over the last 24hrs - on and off via my mobile - I can't add anything to what everyone else has said but after spending so long reading it I couldn't not add my support.

The one thing that stood out to me is what's to gain? Nothing for you and XP if he's on the level as neither of you accept the validity of the marriage and nothing as far as his mother is concerned as you can't marry retrospectively so your son is still the illegitimate son of a white none Muslim. The only thing that changes is your legal status under Islam and Islamic countries and that's the worrying part. Even if that's not on their mind, it's still a card they can pull out later on if you were to fall out.

mynameis some brilliant advice here. You really need to do the right thing for you and your child, if your xdp is happy to continue to be manipulated by his mother, as an adult thats is his choice.

I am married to a muslim, and the cultural differences are massive when it comes to marriage and family interference imput. However it works when there is compromise on both sides.

My husband and i both had hard time(my family also), but he wanted to marry me, made that clear and now i can honestly say i love his family and am glad im part of it.

You have to do whats right for you. Can i say no-one gets any guarantees in this life, we all kind of do our best in any given circumstances. It would be unfair on yourself to go through with this as a way to maintain your dc relationship with father. Good luck, i hope you both find a good resolution.

Agree. Run a mile. Do not let this woman within an inch of your dc. If she had been prepared to accept him without this "ceremony" then perhaps supervised access would have been ok. But if this ceremony goes ahead, she will think of your dc as her "property" and that is worrying. I personally would be very scared to even have exP having him without supervision, as you never know just how much she could manipulate your exP. She sounds like a loon. Making her ds share her bed til 13? Yuk.

if you had a Muslim marriage and later, for example, went to visit the family, what might happen?

Hoover I liked a name from the Old Testament and knew that anything Abrahamic (and around that time) could have an Islamic equivalent and this name did. I would have had the Jewish/OT version of the name on the BC. xDP campaigned hard to have the Arabic version because his view was that as DS grows up he will use and probably prefer the OT version because he will 'fit in' better and he might not be so keen on his Pakistani/Muslim lineage. I very much hope that is not the case but I could see that might be so. My DS has ended up being called a very silly shorter version of the Arabic name which people actually now assume is Japanese. As if it couldn't get any more complicated! DS has both our surnames as a poncey hyphenated affair. His middle name is not Arabic and he is not a Syed which xDP could have passed on if he had so wished.

Xales No, there is no love. This is about social standing in her circle of friends. xDP has said that was what the marriage proposal is about. It is knowing of people like your friend (and all the Muslims that have responded directly on this thread) that is helping me separate out the religion from her behaviour and know that this is not about religion either. It is about control.

TBJ That is a comforting thought, thank you. I know I can't let my guard down now and behave as if she is not a risk to my DS's safety but on paper, she is a frail, elderly (70 yr old) woman with numerous health afflictions who spends a lot of time at doctor's appointments. I would not wish ill health or worse on anyone, but I do not think she is going anywhere anytime soon. She could have another 25 years in her! xDP definitely goes through sentimental phases about M's ability to change - she had a lumpectomy for breast cancer a few years ago and he bizarrely thought that would 'soften her' when he was trying to work out when he might tell her about us.

Chins Like the name! I am quite possibly deluded about still believing xDP is not a nasty person, just an incredibly weak person (I do take on board HardColin's comments about xDP having learnt a few tricks from M). Doesn't mean I have any intention of getting back with him, even if that was what he wanted. He is DS's father so it is in both mine and DS's interests to not vilify him. We get along ok. I have had to be firm about contact at the start and once we got into a routine, the past 8 or so months have been much much easier and we have been able to make small talk, have a cup of tea etc - but mainly because when xDP is here we are talking about or playing with our DS so we have our focus right there. We are very similar people (probably another one of our reasons for splitting up, but we could never survive the cloud of M hanging over us anyway) but I think we both know we do not have another shot at this and it is best to focus on building our friendship and relationship as parents only. I am a child of a second marriage, and have 2 older half-siblings (never consider them as 'halves') and my siblings' dad is part of our family and is a bonus grandad to our DS so I have a good example to follow in terms of both moving on and having a blended family (no affairs involved - I take my hat off to people who manage to do this when they have been betrayed by ex - not so easy). My dad took my mum's married surname when they got together so that all of us children had the same name.

sarraburd Yes, the risk is always there. Don't know M's position on abortion but I do know that when she was informed about pregnancy of first GD she said that the pregnancy would miscarry because it was sinful To be fair to xDP I think he waited to tell M not only because he was scared but because he felt it best to get DS born and past the newborn stage (and me out of the new mother phase) before M knew and could start plotting. I think he genuinely thought she would reject DS outright. He thinks the reason why this has now come up is because influence of Aunty F and also because M has realised that xDP intends on being a permanent fixture in his son's life. xDP partially lives with M so while they do not speak about the fact he is with DS so often she realises 3x a week where he is.

Have to write an email to nursery now telling them that xDP is no longer able to pick DS from nursery 2x a week

I actually think that your ex sounds quite sinister. His mother does too, obviously, but he sounds very controlling and dismissive (getting you bogged down in semantics, 'nothing has to change yet', passing messages on from his mother about you getting married (!), badgering you to get an abortion. There's more things that have set alarms bells ringing but it's a huge thread and I'm fucking shattered!).

The whole situation sounds horrendous and I feel really bad for you reading it all. But the picture of your ex that have painted over the last few days is not good at all. He sounds very damaged but that doesnt give him a free pass to damage you and your son. Some of things he's said and done are actually fairly outrageous.

Good luck, OP. Dont get bogged down in the details of all of this. Make your decisions, set out your stall and then get on with the business of being a mother.