pregnant at 17 ... but it was 'expected'

[waspbee]

friend of my husband has a daughter who has just announced shes pregnant. the mother said she 'expected it' to happen. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am i being unreasonable to think what the hell happened to her mothers duty to get involved and stop it happening. so sad

LeQueen -Totally agree with what you say. I work with teenager mothers and the pattern is depressingly familiar. Relationships seldom last and most girls settle into a life on benefits having further children.

Oh I got pregnant in my teens. I had plenty of drive, intelligence and gumption, but then I had an abortion. I don't regret that for one minute, it was absolutely the right thing for me to do.

However I do think that our opinions are formed based upon our experiences. Of the 3 young women I know who got pregnant and had babies in their teens, one returned back to work with the support of her family. She has a good job and is a great mum.

Another who got pregnant before ever getting a job slogged her guts out to get some qualifications, whilst working and has ended up in a good job and is providing for her daughter.

The third got pregnant in 6th form, went on do her A levels and university. Her boyfriend was in the services, they're still together and raising their child together.

I honestly don't know of anyone who got pregnant in their teens, got a council house and was happy with their lot. And I'm working class!

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, only our opinions are influenced by our experiences.

None of these girls really chose to get pregnant I suppose, but they chose to have their babies and make a life for themselves and are doing very well, even if they're not be captains of industry.

the thing is, it's not like all (or many) of these girls are destined to have great careers anyway - and there is no shame in that. Some of us have been happy to take a back seat and just be mothers, (me) or do fairly unremarkable jobs, which is absolutely fine. But they are limiting their chances of economic wellbeing in that as well. Once you have children and a home to keep up at an early age, where you cannot possibly hope to be financially self-sufficient, you become trapped in the benefits system and it doesn't pay (in the short term) to move out of it. And few girls in that situation have the guts, or the confidence, or motivation to turn down money for maintaing the status quo. They can't move forward and become financially independent because it involves making massive sacrifices and huge leaps of faith when their children are small. And the boy they were so in love with at 16 fucked off years ago. That's the tragedy.

Wubbly, to be honest when there are people with a lot of experience in this field saying actually it's rather different, then I'm not sure why you are so uninterested in that and why it doesn't affect your view.

Do we have attachment of benefits at the moment? I have no idea.

Anyway it brings it all back down to money. Just supplying money is the only role one can legislate for a father. As for the rest they can do what they want. You can't change that except by changing a culture of irresponsibility.

For goodness sake gooseberry, I am not uninterested at all, I am simply arguing against a stereotype, is that okay?

I am not blind to the poverty of ambition amongst many young people, male and female or the problems it brings.

I am saying exclusively judging women and mothers and ignoring the role of men is not seriously addressing the issue.

If we really do want to do something to change things, then we need to look at both sexes, not just wring our hands and say there's nothing to be done. It's similar to the half baked ideas of Nadine Dorries, who's radical approach on sex education remarkably doesn't include boys.

The OP asked "Am i being unreasonable to think what the hell happened to her mothers duty to get involved and stop it happening" My response is yes you bloody well are.

Nullius this 'they didn't get themselves pregnant' argument drives me up the frigging wall. No they didn't - but they allowed it to happen. Of course genuine accidents can happen to anyone - but this is 2011 FFS - there can hardly be a teenager alive in Britain today that doesn't understand about birth control or the consequences of not using it. Young men do not 'get' girls pregnant. Young men 'get' girls into bed. They always have done. Are we as a gender so stupid still that we don't see that coming? I think it's incredibly patronising and simplistic to imply that young women have no say in it, and men will 'have their way' and trick girls into lone motherhood.

It is a two way street. Girls have so many choices all the way along the line that in 99% pf cases, the only reason they end up with a baby is because they want it that way.

I agree that our own experience colours our opinions... Like the 'Poor Kids' discussions/show, this thread has really opened my eyes. I've never personally known any feckless teen mums, and as I said above I was never one for trying to fit in anyway, so I find it hard to understand how people just get pregnant because that is what everyone else is doing... I grew up in a totally different environment than the sort where teen pregnancy is rife.

I agree of course that the parents should be the first to tackle such low expectations. But it is difficult, when they have been ground down by the low expectations of their parents, and grandparents... And then the social stigma of living on a sink estate or going to a crappy school, knowing that everyone looks down on them, believing they'll never amount to anything because that is what the Daily Mail has on its headlines and everyone complains about the Yoof... How the fuck do you change all that? Where on earth would you start?

But it seems the stereotype largely obtains. There are exceptions but they are exceptions.

As regards the man's role: yes, who could disagree? But the solution of helping the mother to make more of her life - ie money, childcare, support - is an anti-solution to the problem of paternal responsibility. It absolves the father.

I think this conundrum should be acknowledged.

I agree completely Gooseberry.

Sorry, I missed a bit off my first paragraph - as I was in a very different environment - not rich at all, but in terms of culture, academia, ideals etc - I was certainly not devoid of empowerment or opportunity. Feel like a conceited arse for saying it but I had all the ingredients for a high flying career, intelligence, hard work etc... Except the desire. Basically I wasn't the stereotype of a young mum at all, and the decision to TTC was mine and DH's alone, rather than the product of societal expectations. So I find the whole teen pregnancy thing a bit baffling still.

God forbid a 17 year old woman should want sex eh Fellatio? You know, a woman couldn't let a man get her pregnant if he insisted on wearing a condom. But boys will be boys eh

I don't disagree necessarily gooseberry, but I think the problem with stereotypes is they are hurtful and, in this instance, not particularly helpful. We've know since the beginning of time that man/woman have sex, woman gets the baby. It's one of the fundamental issues of feminism surely?

I think for any woman, of any age, class, background, marital status, the issues of opportunities at work, childcare support and finances are an issue. It's not something that society generally sees as an issue to concern itself with though, it's seen as a woman's issue, which I think needs to change, for women and mothers of all ages.

I don't have all of the answers, obviously. I wouldn't be arsing around posting on MN if I did.

A lot of 'issues' in that last post About time for bed I reckon.

No, wubbly I agree with you, but the point is it works both ways! It is not good enough for a boy to say a girl 'trapped him' into fatherhood by pretending she was on the pill or whatever, but equally, a girl knows whether a condom is being worn. This 'he got me pregnant' thing make it sound as if he snuck up on her when she wasn't looking! It's a cop-out. Their should be equal responsibility.

And i agree about Nadine Dorries - I saw that initiative on TV the other day and I thought 'what a naive and half-baked crock of shit.' It seemed to be all about teaching a girl that it was ok to say No. Like the only reason teen PGs happen is because girls don't know they are entitled to refuse a boy's advances.

Fellatio I wasnt saying that the men snuck up on them and got them pregnant, I said they didnt get pregnant by themselves which they didnt.

I agree many dont bother with contraception, but some cases like my own were down to contraceptive failure (including a condom).

This idea that teen mothers are a different species really pisses me off. Nearly all 17 year olds are having sex, fact. A pregnant 17 yr old is not loose, or easy, or a slag, in most cases shes just unlucky.

Some plan to get pregnant, some dont plan it but dont prevent it either, some have genuine contraceptive failure, some have abortions. The young mothers you see pushing prams are a tiny amount of the real teen pregnancy rate, lets not forget teenagers can miscarry too.

By the time I was pregnant, all but one of my group of friends had also been pregnant, falling into several of the catagories ive mentioned. You may have a daughter or son that wasnt a young parent, doesnt mean they were not at some point pregnant.

Who is this Nadine Dorries woman please? I keep seeing the name around. Don't have TV so I'm a bit behind on the news - can someone explain? :)

Do you people not have the morning after pill in the UK?

Even if she had unprotected sex for whatever reason or a condom broke, I don't understand why girls don't get the morning after pill.

Because the morning after pill is 100% effective.

What would you do as a mother?
Try and stop her? Doesnt work, trust me, she'll find a way.
Tell her no sex before marriage like my Dad did for me? Yea right.
Put her on the pill? That works, mum put my 13 year old sis on the pill and shes now 16 and not pregnant. But then that condones underage sex doesn't it. Wrong thing to do.
Sit back and 'expect it'? Get slammed for being idle and irresponsible.
What stopped me getting pregnant, was my mother educating me on how she got pregnant at the age of 14 by not using protection, she was open and honest about most teenage boys motives, stds and pregnancy.

But then theres always woopsy daisys arent there.

Yes "we people" in the UK do have the MAP Cote.

But you wouldnt think to take it if you were already on the pill or another form of contraception would you.

I probably shouldn't be reading this thread as I feel my own situation is clouding my judgement.

However, I became pregnant at 16 (my fault) and had my DS at 17. At the time I thought I was in a stable relationship. Both of us were working and I had my own flat. When the relationship ended, I went back to work full-time (very difficult trying to find a job as a 19yr old single mum with very little in the way of qualifications) managed to find a good job, which has led me into the career I currently have.

Financially, I'm OK, not great but we manage. I have never depended on the state for help but the assumption from people that I have is always there.

On the other hand, my friend, same age as me, became pregnant 6mths after me. She is still with her partner (together 10yrs) and she went on to have another 2 children. She has not worked since having her son 8yrs ago.

It just goes to show that you shouldn't make assumptions based on people circumstances. A lot of people we knew had written me off and said I would never work again and that my friend would have a great job once she went back to work.

Funny that

Perhaps we should be sending out a message of absistence. is it such a bad thing. I know it is unfashionable.

"And, there are hundreds of thousands more who are quite content to drift into pregnancy and drift in to the benefits culture, and go on to have 2-3 more children."

See, I don't think we should just shrug about this. I think it's a damn shame. I don't believe women of a certain class or culture have so little to offer that this "drift" doesn't matter.