pregnant at 17 ... but it was 'expected'

[waspbee]

friend of my husband has a daughter who has just announced shes pregnant. the mother said she 'expected it' to happen. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am i being unreasonable to think what the hell happened to her mothers duty to get involved and stop it happening. so sad

"the vast majority of 16-19 year olds who have a baby are not in a loving, long-term, stable relationship -..Nine times out of ten, they were in relationship only a few months old...the pregnancy came as a surprise.. within months [the Father] had lost interest and often wasn't on the scene at all by the time the baby was a year old...the Mother ended up relying heavily on help and support from her own Mum and an impressive amount of support from various support agencies"

this isn't bad or wrong? this is a way ahead?

Nullius that's just a straw man argument. It's an impossible calculation. No one can know what the relative costs are, or the relative numbers. It's just an interesting thought.

Ambition is the best contraception. Very good catgirl. I like that.

You said it wasn't bad or wrong. It just reads as a lot of very hopeless situations to me, which I would describe as - well, certainly not a good thing.

"I'm interested in the idea that 17-year-olds who get pregnant are generally in a stable couple, financially independent, and choosing motherhood as part of a life and career plan. This seems to be the thrust of things here. Is this what you are saying?"

I don't think anyone is saying that. My impression is that what they are saying is: this is also a category that exists, as well as the more commonly known category of feckless teenagers, one cannot automatically assume about any one individual what category they are going to be in.

Personally, I am sure there are plenty of teens who become mothers too early. But I also look at some of my university students and wish someone had suggested that maybe they should do other things until they had matured a little. It's a difficult age, and not many things to do for people who are not ready for either university or family life.

But that doesn't mean everybody at the same age is immature; some people are more mature at 17 than others at 50.

I might sound like a bitch of a mother here, but after raising my children on my own I will be making it clear to my daughter that if she ever got pregnant I wouldn't be able to face helping her. I need to get some fun in my life. I would die thinking of her stuck at home with a baby.... but I can not do it again.

i had one at 19 and another at 21 and STILL got a degree! it can be done.

i think younger than 18 and it does make life harder, but my experience was that having children and studying was compatible, much more so than working where i would have had to do many more hours.

some people want to have children when they are younger, it doesnt mean that they lack ambition, just that we can and are allowed to make different life choices and take different paths.

and there are rising numbers of women who are leaving having children till they are that bit older and then struggling to do so which is a position i would never want to be in.

dp and i wanted to have a large family and we have done so and are still young enough that we can enjoy our children and then our childrens children and have more of a 'life' tho to say that you dont have a life or have a less of a one just because you have children young is quite frankly insulting to those of us that have chosen to have children when we were younger.

and nullius makes a good point that physically women generally cope better with pregnancy and childbirth if they do it at a younger age, in their twenties. i know that my pregnancies and births were very straightforward and simple and fairly easy as far as birth goes. maybe i was just lucky but i had many drs and midwives tell me that as i was young and healthy etc and a 'good age' to be having babies that my body coped well with it and i had none of the complaints that my many older pregnant friends had and tbh age is irrelevant often, many of my friends are older/younger but we have lots in common and have shared life experiences together, we dont judge each other for the age at which we have chosed to have a family. but i would say and my older friends would agree that my pregnancies were far easier and we have adjusted more easily in many ways to the demands that children put on your life and relationships.

You must have had a really good attitude. A lot of young girls wouldn't be able to face watching everybody else have so much fun. And at college, anybody older or a mother is regarded as being practically another species!

I knew of a girl who had a baby at 14. And she was so, so, so young that her parents just literally took over and she got a degree too. But I think it was more like an informal adoption. So she seems to emerge from it unscathed academically.

When I was at a 20 year school reunion, it was incredible that there were a couple of girls who were grandmothers (only two) but there were also a couple of girls who were having IVF. The grandmothers seemed happier with their lot in life. But, that's an unfair snapshot. 3 years down the line the women having ivf could have had success, or moved on. I saw them at a rough patch.

not a good attitude, just stubborn and determined to prove the naysayers wrong, lots said i would just drop out and not finish my education etc, i was determined to prove them wrong. i also had a good friend at uni who had a child and made many friend there (wives of lecturers!) who had their children the same time as me and used the same nursery, toddler groups etc. the university had anursery as most do and the university had a system set up to help pay nursery fees if necessary (they still do so ithink)

i just think that having children is a hugely important thing to many women, regardless of the age they have them at and i am grateful and pleased that i met my dp when i did and we made the decision to have children early, its worked for us and i would have hated to have waited and then struggled, as i was i concived the first month of trying with all 5 of my children! fertile?!! buti am sure age played a part in that.

and with regards to having fun going out etc, i did LOT of that when i was younger 14-19 and once i was at uni i was pretty much past the party all night stage and ready to move on with my life, i have thoroughly enjoyed being a mum and whilst i am ready now and in the next few years to do other things, i wouldnt change it for the world :)

I think it's desperately sad that, as women, we can so easily write off the entire life of a young woman, because she has a child at 17.

It might be easier to go to get a degree and a great job without a child, but it's not impossible to achieve the same things with a child. Should we really be telling young women who find themselves pregnant that their only options are a life on benefits or an abortion? Because, really, I think that's what a lot of this opinion boils down to.

Most generations of working class women had their children early. They still worked, still provided, still had lives. There is no reason at all why a young women today cannot still achieve that, though it must be difficult when faced with such scorn from your own sex.

The truth is life is hard for all women with children, regardless of your age. Very few of us get by entirely independently. Most of us rely on someone else to help out with childcare, with household responsibilities, whether from the state, family or funded privately.

There are benefits to having children young, from a health point of view. I really don't think there is a right age, sometimes the decisions are made for us.

Obviously there are women like pineapple for whom things work out differently, or who make things work out differently.

This thread is about expectation, and encouragement. Should we expect 17 year old's to get pregnant? No. Should we, as mothers, discourage them from doing so? Yes.

It's not only a bit pointless to say, no, it's great, I'm alright jack, look what I did. It's also rather counter-productive. Generally, it's not a good thing, and generally, it doesn't have a positive effect on teenagers' lives. Telling women it won't make any difference at all is wrong and unhelpful.

"the vast majority of 16-19 year olds who have a baby are not in a loving, long-term, stable relationship -..Nine times out of ten, they were in relationship only a few months old...the pregnancy came as a surprise.. within months [the Father] had lost interest and often wasn't on the scene at all by the time the baby was a year old...the Mother ended up relying heavily on help and support from her own Mum and an impressive amount of support from various support agencies"

I mean, look at this. This is good? This is to be encouraged? I think we need to get real.

I mean, even writing all this and then saying there's nothing wrong with it. There's a disconnect there. And saying there's something negative about the whole thing is condemned as "scorn". Yes, working class women would start having babies incredibly young and stop when they were worn to nothing. Have we not progressed since then? Are we not allowed to call this progression?

Don't be ridiculous 'worn to nothing' My grandmother and her mother before her had 5 children each. Both worked all of their lives and managed to survive in great health into their 80's and 90's. My own mother worked all her life, had 2 children before the age of 25 and is living the life of riley now in her 60's.

It's not progression no. Progression, IMO, would involve men in the whole debate. Beating up women over their mistakes or choices is remarkably old hat.

I'm not being ridiculous.

Progression would mean involving men? How? Because the 17 y o's generally are in an unstable relationship. How are you going to legisislate relationship stability? You must know there are teenagers who don't care about contraception because they''ve no need to take any responsiblity at all.

Speaking as a working class woman who has had 5 kids,

I am not worn to nothing.

I have control over my fertility and didnt get knocked up every time the old man rolled in drunk from the pub on pay day.

We have progressed thanks.

Well let's make the fathers of these babies responsible too eh? How about that for a starter? Then we'd be maybe talking progress.

Perhaps for a little balance we should also be slating this young man's father for his failure to prevent his son getting a young woman pregnant?

Of course YANBU. The mother should have stood over her, while she was having sex and insured the condom was on correctly, at least.

It's not as if she is legally old enough to have sexual relationship, or leave home, or anything. It's not like she is almost an adult or anything.

And of course her life is ruined now. What does she think that local colleges and uni have childcare facilities or something?

Bet she'll get a council house and stay on benefits for the rest of life having more children everytime she wants a bigger house. That's they do innit?

It's grinding poverty that has historically worn women out. The reasons for that are plentiful, but not really down to having children.

My DH's mother had 4 children. She worked 3 jobs, despite being disabled and blind. She lived through grinding poverty, not because of her children, but because her bastard of a husband upped and left her with nothing and never paid a penny towards the upkeep of his children.

dooinmecleanin, YES local colleges and unis DO have childcare facilities! both for students and staff to use, i dont know a college or uni that doesnt!

tho reading your whole post maybe you are being sarcastic.

and i too CHOSE to have 5 children and am not worn down or worn out, in full health thanks very much.

'tho reading your whole post maybe you are being sarcastic.' - just little bit 4madboys . Perhaps I should have added a [wunk]

wubblybubbly-I love your attitude.

I was a teenage mum. At 28 I am now studying and applying to start a degree next September. By the time I am 34, I will have got a degree, started a career, got married and had 4 children. We then hope to buy a house by the time we're 40. I don't think that's a horrendous waste of a life.

I have 2 daughters and I hope that they will not get pregnant before 16, more because I would be sad to think they would even be having sex before then. I have 2 sons who I hope will not get a girl pregnant before they are able to support and provide for them. I don't know what age that will be. We only ever hear about the teenage Mothers, not Fathers!

I will be telling them to think very carefully about the path they choose, because some paths are more challenging than others. I will support them in their choices. I would not be ashamed if my daughter got pregnant at 17. I would be very disappointed (and ashamed of myself)if she took the decision to either abort or continue the pregnancy lightly.

I hope that I am raising my children to appreciate that they can get anything they want from life-but none of it will come for free.