pregnant at 17 ... but it was 'expected'

[waspbee]

friend of my husband has a daughter who has just announced shes pregnant. the mother said she 'expected it' to happen. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am i being unreasonable to think what the hell happened to her mothers duty to get involved and stop it happening. so sad

happy, good for you! I wish you all the luck in the world, not that you need it, your determination will be quite enough I'm sure.

I didn't actually have my DS until I was 38. No more ideal than 17, that's just how my life panned out.

"Well let's make the fathers of these babies responsible too eh?"

Like - how?

They don't care - they don't have any money, they don't have to pay, there is no way you can make them care or be responsible. This is pie. Seriously. This is pie. It's a fantasy.

Of course you can. Attachment of earnings. Deductions to benefits, just off the top of my head like.

Grinding poverty - and in what way has having numerous children helping to lift them out of this situation?

Mrs de Vere I assume you have control over your contraceptive choices. I understood the other poster was talking about a historical situation. We can talk about your situation if you wish but I believe it to be different to what was being talked about earlier. Progress from a time when there were no choices but motherhood and now to even speak of encouraging such opportunities as an alternative to dependent motherhood is seen as "scorn".

wubblybubbly has the right attitude.

And yes as ive said up thread, about time we started bringing up ours sons to face responsibility, its no good saying you'd hate it for your daughters, what about your sons if you feel so strongly? Or are there some mothers on here, like the ones ive had the misfortune to know in RL who actively encourage their sons to abandon young women who they got pregnant.

As for them never being the ones who were going to uni, why not? Because society never expected them to? Because they had it drilled into them from a young age that uni was "not for them?". Dont forget either that university is not a pre-requisite of life, it is meant for specific academic qualifications and jobs, it is not a right of passage or infact something that all women want to do.

Sadly, teen moms have just become another area of society, like the "underclass", for people to look down on in a jezza kyle style fashion, to make them feel better about their own lives. And if you dont fit that mould, or god forbid, you break the rules and still do better in life than them, well they will get very arsey indeed.

So you acknowledge, at least, that it's not having children that wears women out. After all, middle class women were also having numerous children, yet you don't seem to think they get worn out to nothing?

Having 'numerous' children doesn't, in itself, help anyone out of grinding poverty, why would it? I merely brought up the poverty aspect to challenge your assertion that it was having children that wore women out. It isn't.

Women's bodies are designed to have children, it's society that fucks them over.

You know, it's pisses me off enormously that's this young woman is judged and written off, not a word about the bloke her got her pregnant. What are his ambition? What will he be contributing to society?

Not a word against the young woman's father, it's not his responsibility at all that his daughter gets pregnant, well obviously. But her mother, well of course she should have made sure it never happened.

Not a word about this bloke's father and his role in ensuring his son doesn't go around impregnating women then doing a scoot.

No, we can't ask or expect men to take any responsibility can we? How very unreasonable!

The same old stereotypes are trotted out. This girl obviously has no ambition, wants a cushty life on benefits, never had any intention of living a life of her own, quite probably she forced the poor hapless fella to get her pregnant, or at least her evil feminine wiles to fool him. The man was just along for the ride, literally.

Really interesting points about expectations. Where can society find the balance? I agree that it is not healthy to expect lots of teens to wind up pregnant through carelessness etc, as in the OP. We need to expect people to do whatever is best for them and any children they may have - waiting for the right time FOR THEM (the point being that this differs for everyone) and with the right father of course.

But when teens do become pregnant for the wrong reasons, we cannot just write them off. They need to believe they can go on to great careers etc if they desire it and work hard. Problem is that by then saying this, are we then actually just giving girls the green light to have a baby and say "oh, it'll be fine" without thinking it through?

It's a real headscratcher.

I agree, obviously, about the feckless fathers... Again, expectations aren't good enough. Society assumes they will run off and not pay support or be involved, and when they do, it's seen as a miracle! I admit I'm guilty of this assumption too - my DSDs' friend has just had a baby at 16 and I was astounded to learn that the father is incredibly involved and is working hard to earn for their son. Mum and baby stay there for part of the week, and they do all the baby care themselves. I was also amazed (and very pleased) to hear she is BFing - despite the overbearing MIL trying to shove a bottle in at every opportunity ()

It's really brought home to me that I was going by stereotypes... And actually, this situation shouldn't be some miracle, surely it should be standard, for teen parents to do a damn good job 'despite' an accidental pregnancy. It can't do much good to expect them to be lazy, scrounging, abandoning the baby with grandparents etc...

Argh, I don't know, I'm going round in circles. I don't envy policy makers on this one.

Yes fuzzpig, maybe the answer, if there is one, is to be honest about motherhood not teen motherhood. All the capaigns focus on if your a teen mom you will miss getting pissed with your friends, having a boyfriend or getting a degree. Which of course is stereotypical and assumes all teen girls want those things. So they end up thinking, "well, actually I dont want to fall out of bars every saturday and ive got a fella already" IYSWIM. We are all guilty I believe of not being honest enough about motherhood, and of pretending there is some golden age when its a walk in the park. We all know thats not the case.

I dont think its about giving a green light, more about how women and girls are viewed in our society. That really is difficult to change.

For instance, im judged for being a young parent (obviously I did it for one of those lovely council houses!).

If people bothered to ask they'd know id lived alone in my own house for 2 years before I even got pregnant.

The teen mothers I observed when I was a teenager, in my neighbourhood and at school, were profoundly unambitious. They wanted someone to love them.

Well how very sad then mathanxiety, maybe the people who saw this should have offered some support rather than judging if that really was the case?

And lets not forget, no matter wether they wanted love or not, they didnt get themselves pregnant.

Society that fucks them over?

How? When there's a choice? Why are so many having children so young outside stable relationships if society fucks them over for it?

They're having them precisely because society doesn't fuck them over. Your point is, I am gathering, that a 17 y 0 single mother can do anything, can get an education, a job, childcare etc etc. And how, exactly, is that "fucking them over"?

Aren't benefits deducted already from fathers? If not, then yes, bring it on.

Fuzzpig - truth there. We can't write them off. But not doesn't mean we need to encourage it.

This thread was about expectation and encouragement to walk a different road.

If you say the expectation is wrong, that apparently is scorn of a feminist choice. If you say they should be encouraged not to, that is fucking them over.

Oh they got support. Nothing attracts the attention of social workers and school administrators like a pregnancy, especially when the mother is really quite young. The baby represented someone who would love them unconditionally, and they were willing to exchange day to day reality and the challenge of dealing with the future for the fairy tale of a boy telling them he loved them (or whatever he thought would get their knickers down) and the fairy tale of a live baby doll who would love them. They didn't get to that point of their lives overnight.

Where have I said we should encourage teenage mums, as some sort of feminist choice gooseberry? Do point that out to me please?

Good point Nullius - I never wanted the whole 'uni life' thing at all. I wanted a degree (which I'm halfway through now). Apart from a handful of drunken college sleepovers with my best friends, I was never into alcohol (last drink I had was after my wedding in 2008) I met DH at 15, but TBH I really don't think, had I been single, I would have been into the clubbing, sleeping around scene that is apparently so essential to teen life I don't know, I'm just 'over it' - went to loads of gigs with DH, which was fantastic, but that's not us now. We've done that and moved on to our 'true selves' - much happier seeing an orchestral work. I was seen as unusual among my peers, but not judged by my friends.

This is such a complicated issue with so many influences. It is peer pressure 'to the max' so to speak. Somehow, despite having low self esteem, I've never been one to fall into the 'fitting in' trap - I've been lucky. How many girls are binge drinking, wearing tiny skirts and sleeping with boys when they don't even want to? How many boys feel pressure to get as many notches on their bedposts as possible and treat girls like objects because that's what lads do? Not excusing the behaviour, but it is a lot more complicated than 'sluts and players' IMO.

Furthermore I can't help feeling like there's not enough value placed on anything other than 'getting lots of money and having the right STUFF'. Thanks to the celebrity obsession there's so many young people who just want the fame without the work, and give up on school. Getting disillusioned when they don't make it. But motherhood (and indeed fatherhood) isn't valued enough either IMO. Bringing up a PERSON - a whole person! - is often seen as less important than getting a job and earning money and travelling. Maybe if childrearing wasn't portrayed as secondary, teen girls looking for a way out of a shit life, and boys reluctant to use protection, wouldn't take it so lightly?

LeQueen, that is why I want to slap their parents. How does a girl live her whole life to the point where she can reproduce and never feel she is special or have any kind of status in her family or community?

Wow as usual people taking this as a personal attack on their choices rather than a discussion regarding what they would want for their children.

I'm glad you acknowledge it shouldn't be encouraged. As I agree with that, I don't know where we disagree.

I stick my response to the OP - no, it shouldn't be an expectation, and yes, as a mum (also I would insert dad obviously though I didn't before) one should encourage them not to.

Feel free to disagree.

You are so, so right LeQueen. The few that have enormous courage and gumption (and ideally, high intelligence) can go on to do all the things they may have achieved without a teen PG, but sadly for many it is the end of any ambition they may have ever had. No matter what they tell themselves.

Yes - it's a low expectation that should be challenged, and the parents should be the first to challenge it.