pregnant at 17 ... but it was 'expected'

[waspbee]

friend of my husband has a daughter who has just announced shes pregnant. the mother said she 'expected it' to happen. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am i being unreasonable to think what the hell happened to her mothers duty to get involved and stop it happening. so sad

But I've said in every post that I don't belive anyone should have a child if they can't financially support it. If hard times are hit upon, then benefits should be used as a safety net, to get people back on their feet.

But you are saying a 17 year old shouldn't have a child if can't financially support it, but an older person can. What is the age of the older person?

In your world GBB can a 21 year old couple have a baby?

Is it 17 only if both parents are 17?

Is it 21 only if both parents are 21?

What is the deal if one parent is 17 and one is 27? And does that make a difference if it is the woman or the man who is older?

"My point was that asking if a 17 year old girl is in a "serious long term relationship" is ridiculous because she has barely passed the age of consent. How "long term" can any of her relationships be? Several months?"

At 17 I had been with my partner a year. We were living together for the first time and stayed together another 3 years.

If a woman has DC, then goes on to accomplish other things during her life, then I have no problem with that. I think it is easier to accomplish lots of things pre DC that are perhaps more difficult to achieve after having DC, but if that is the order a woman chooses to do things, that is surely her prerogative.
I just don't understand any woman who wants nothing more out of life than to have DC. What do they do when their DC grow up and leave home?
My example may appear extreme, and so far as the lack of social life, it may be extreme, but I know a number of women who have had DC very young, and there are very few who have actually gone on to accomplish anything else. Out of all of the women I know IRL who have had DC before the age of 20, only one of them has travelled, gone into further education and has an active social life.
In fact, some of the youngest mothers I have ever come across are strangely proud of being such a young mother, and appear to live vicariously through their DC. They also make statements such as 'When my DC are 18, I'll still be young enough to go out and have fun AND my DC and I will be more like friends who'll socialise with me, I can go out then, and hop off on holiday with my friends then, I am merely postponing having my freedom until my DC are older.'

shes got a point GBB

I'm almost frightened to join in this one, but, if I'm honest, I wouldn't be overjoyed if either of my dds wanted to be a mum at 17, just because I do think there are so many other things they could be doing.

It's all very well saying that you can study/ travel/ go out with friends once you have children, but for me, since I've had my children, it's all been about them. They get new clothes, parties, school trips, I go nowheer and get nothing, and I truly don't grudge them that. It costs a lot of money to have children, and takes up pretty much all your free time (in my experience). To be a parent seems to mean giving up selfish pleasures. When I was younger I was able to be completely and utterly selfish- I did what suited me, and didn't have to consider anyone else, noone was relying on me. It was great. Having children is also great, but I know I will never really get that freedom to do just what I want back. If they go to university at 18, I will no doubt be supporting them financially and emotionally. If they did have a baby at 17, I would be supporting them likewise. I think the freedom to be completely and utterly selfish is something that everyone should be able to experience for some period of their life, and I would be sad if my dds (or ds) didn't get to have that.

Having said that, a baby is never an unmitigated disaster, and would never be unwanted . I suppose the difference is whether it was planned or not. I'd actually probably find it easier to be understanding if either of my dds had an unplanned pregnancy, as we all make mistakes, and, as someone pointed out upthread, anyone who is sexually active, whether they are using contraception or not, has to be aware that there is always a possibility of pregnancy. As someone who was sexually active at 17 (despite my mother's draconian view on the subject, and despite respecting and loving my mum deeply) it would be hypocritical of me to berate any of my children for doing so.

How predictable, just as I said it would in my first post, this thread has turned into a benefit bashing all teenage moms are scroungers thread.

A few things you should consider - the MP's you elect use more for expenses and the well off dodge more in tax than the entire benefit bill, let alone teen parents.

If feckless fathers, the men of this country, ie your sons, your new partners, your fathers brothers or exes, were made to face up to their responsibilities and pay for thier children, you wouldnt have to fund them through benefits. Stop shouting at the women and start shouting at the fathers.

And Cote, what exactly are you so desperate to proove? Even in the face of several people saying well actually, im fine with my decision and im doing ok, you are still determind to shout them down and tell them how terrible it is to be a young mom. I think they know their lives better than you do.

surely the happiness of the 17 yr old and her child is the most important thing?

"More like couldn't be bothered to use a condom and half my mates are up the duff anyway."

Biggest load of bollocks I have read on MN recently.

As someone who has actually known plenty of teenage mums growing up, it is clear to me you are very ignorant on the subject and talking out of your arse.

i wonder what shed say if she knew her mums friend had put this online for us to judge

"I haven't read through the whole thread, but actually having a child so young can sometimes make you more ambitious that ordinarily you would have been, especially if you somehow feel you have let yourself down in some way by not being settled in life before having a family. I have a friend who has studied unbelievably hard since having her daughter at 17, she is now a doctor. Takes some balls that does. She has been unbelievably skint all throughout her 20's but has got there in the end."

Yes it can be done but it is so immesurably hard to do. Believe me. I was skint and had no life really until I was 28. Motherhood, work and study. It was worth it, as I was determined not to be a feckless waster on the dole, but dear god I do NOT wish that on my dd.

I am 33 now and at the age where most women are having their first child, my dd is 15. There is also the worrying thing that my entire adult life has been spent being a mother. When she leaves home in 3 years I know I will have trouble adjusting. I probably won't know what I am to do, tbh.

There is a huge stigma to being a young mother, people still judge me now for having been a teenage mother. It makes everything a battle frankly.

Teens and twenties should be spent getting to know the world, not spent dedicating it to a baby.

The number of times people have said to me I can't believe how much you have done and achieved in your life already, you have done so much more than me. Then I mention my children and they say 'and you've done it with children? I can't even contemplate having children'.

Yes I am proud of myself and yes I am proud of my children.

But I really can't believe that I am so special and so driven to be the only teenage mum who has done this.

I get that people can go back later and do these things, but it won't be the same experience. When I went to uni at 17, I was probably horribly immature, met so many new people and had a ball. The mature students always seemed really dull, it was just about the studying for them. They never seemed part of it (and I'm sure they wouldn't have wanted to be!), but I have such great memories of that time, and I could never have behaved so badly done all those things as a mature student.

SITMWY 7 DCs by 27?!? wow. Two was enough for me. I'm 24 now and we are done. Good thing too, as DH has a complicated back injury... Pineapple's post has also made me very glad we've had our DCs already before he got hurt :) 7 though... Wow.

On the other other hand I doubt many 17 year old mothers are doing it because they want to do a marvellous job and realise how important is the work of parenthood. More like couldn't be bothered to use a condom and half my mates are up the duff anyway.

I was very much the former (although a few years older - technically I was never a teenage mum). I do wonder if people assumed it was the latter - or the escapism etc you mentioned in a different post. I have to say, until MN I'd never really considered the whole 'no ambition' assumption. It's never been an issue for me, I'm confident and intelligent enough to know that I can be who I want to be.

I realise this is a small and probably quite unusual example, but I feel that out of my college friends I am actually one of the MORE empowered people, despite being the only mum so far. My friends have said this to me too. They've gone off to uni and got jobs because that's what society - and their parents - expected, whereas I did what I wanted to do. Which was have a family, study, and do a lot of volunteering. My plans have actually changed a bit though... I'm enjoying all the charity work (4 different projects ATM - so I'd like to think I'm contributing something to society...) so much that I'm hoping to increase it and maybe end up working in that field. I am really proud that DD sees me help people. :)

fuzzpig I find it very interesting that you mention celebrity obsession wrt my example, because the young lady I speak of is rather obsessed with celebrities. I have never seen a connection myself, but am intrigued at the connection.

Joolyjoolyjoo I couldn't have put it better myself.

Nullius No one is benefit bashing all teenage mums, but surely it is true that a 17 year old is more likely to need support on all fronts than someone older? I'm quite confident that more 17 year olds do not remain in long term relationships or support themselves than perhaps parents in their 30's for example. This by no means applies to all teenage mothers, but a much larger proportion than older mothers. Yet still, I see no benefit bashing on here, just the bare bones. It is foolish to pretend that teenage single mothers are not usually in more need of support than older mothers, whether that be from their parents or the govt.

I never claimed a penny benefit, btw, I didn't rely on anyone.

I worked during my pregnancy, took off 18 weeks maternity leave (as was the norm then), went back to the factory when dd ws 3 months, have only claimed child benefit, and for a couple of years tax credits.

I was so ashamed of being a teenage single parent I didn't want to compound matters by being on income support as well.

No family to support me either, I had my own flat.

I wouldn't want my dd to have to do that in a million years. I hope I have given her a happy childhood so she doesn't think that motherhood at 17 is the best option open to her.

If a woman has DC, then goes on to accomplish other things during her life, then I have no problem with that. I think it is easier to accomplish lots of things pre DC that are perhaps more difficult to achieve after having DC, but if that is the order a woman chooses to do things, that is surely her prerogative.

Ah, now THAT is the best post on the thread. Apart from mine obviously :o

I met, married and had a baby with ExTwat within a year but he became ever-more abusive and was kicked into touch when DD was a few months old. I was in my late twenties. It scares me that I may not have made the decision to get rid, or indeed have had the power to, if I had been younger and hadn't have had my own house and a well-paying job.

As for romance lasting from teen-hood to parenthood, I once read something which has stayed with me about the changes you go through as a teenager. I don't know where it was from, maybe Mizz magazine but it was something like, "this month's utter soul-mate is an incomprehensible stranger after a few weeks" and that was certainly true for me.

haha sorry maryz think i got caught up in the new argument

IMHO the answer to the original question is maybe not so much yabu but definetly 'YABVnaive'. you can tell a teenager til your blue in the face but it doesnt mean its going to happen!
my mum is the most amazing, lovely, decent woman i know (bias i know! ) but it didnt stop the pill failing on me and dd apearing when i was 19 and halfway through uni. fate i think. eitherway neither my mother nor her mother can be blamed because there was nothing either of them could do

shes 17, not 4, i think teenagers should be given more credit sometimes

I really think people don't get the strong desire to have children, perhaps because they didn't start feeling that way themselves until they were 30.

There are many wonderful things to do in life other than have children, but you are not going to make the most of them if you are going through the motions of all of them constantly thinking 'I wish I had children.' If you feel like that, it makes much more sense to do those things later on, when your desire for kids is not marring it all.

portaloo - this may well be true, but how many teenagers are currently unemployed? Over a million I believe. Are they all over the news as scroungers? Are they judged in the same way? Just as older people currently out of work, do they get the same bad press? Or, do we assume that they are using it as a temporary option untill they get back on their feet which is exactly what most teen moms do.

I actually know very few teen moms who went on to have loads more children and stay on benefits. The one mom at the school gates I see had her first at 23, now has 7 in her 30's and clearly has no intention of ever getting a job, just having more kids. Not a teen mom though.

MillyR I completely understand the strong maternal urge to have DC, I have had 2 myself.
I have many strong urges to do many things, yet I don't always act upon those urges simply because I have them.

Portaloo, I'm glad you've confirmed my suspicions as that was a bit of a shot in the dark... the celebrity thing is something I feel very strongly against. Apart from the obvious and often discussed influence on body image/eating disorders etc, there is the 'five minutes of fame' culture (Big Brother anyone? Or some photos of WAGs?) - I despise this. Making children feel like they are only worth something if they have money and fame, and perhaps worse, that they don't need to DO anything to achieve it. No wonder some girls don't try and do maths, why bother when they can just make themselves look pretty and marry a footballer, right?

And it's not these girls' fault, is it. This culture is rammed down their throats in films, magazines, music, everything. I wasn't really exposed to this as a child in the 80s/90s... The only slebs I knew of were Beethoven and Enid Blyton :o I can only hope that by being a decent role model to my DCs, they won't be too influenced by this, and I'll work damn hard to show them there is more to life than material wealth and fame and beauty... but I know it'll be more difficult once they go to school :(

Sorry I have gone off on quite a tangent there