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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

424 replies

sundayrose10 · 07/06/2011 01:56

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 09:56

"I am sure that the majority of the police would like to have shot this man straight in the head and forego any procedures"

WTF? So the police can't be expected to do anything in a two year build up to this event, with all the reports and evidence they received, and the man having a non-molestation order or whatever it's called. And that is QUITE RIGHT AND PROPER. But then when the bloke acts the police want to turn into some kind of american cop show and go around shooting first and not bothering to ask questions later? WTfuckity fuck?

Who on EARTH thinks that this is the way the police should be operating, Confused Well someone on this thread obv.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 09:59

I read it in the paper this morning at my parents house nicknack.

here

Unless people think that all this woman's friends, family and neighbours are lying about what the situation was and what the police knew and did, because obviously it's very unlikely that the ex-partner did these things, seeing as what an upstanding bloke he is.... Oh wait.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 07/06/2011 10:00

Sardine - this man killed a baby, his own daughter, and mother, and looks like he tried to kill a 10 year.

Why should we spend hundreds of thousands on trials, crap insanity pleas, and so forth when the guy who did this is clearly scum and offers nothing but hatred and violence. It is not normal to kill someone, especially not your own child. As soon as he shot the kid, the police marksmen should have taken him out.

What is wrong with this?

Dont tell me you think he was innocent or has human rights!

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 10:01

Nickynacky, if you do a google news search you will see that virtually every newspaper refers to the 100+ threatening messages Christine showed the police last week. They had plenty of time to arrest him, charge him, divest him of his weapons etc.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 10:02

cookcleaner if you are not comfortable with the justice system that we have in this country can I suggest you move somewhere else.

I for one am very happy that our police are not generally armed, and that they don't go around shooting people. And when they do (John Clarles Menezes) the shit, rightly, hits the fan.

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 10:03

cookcleaner - I couldn't agree more.

CrapolaDeVille · 07/06/2011 10:03

What's the solution? Why are these men getting so angry that they are violent or murderous in the first place?

I think it's time we filled our prisons with proper hard labour for violence, not cannabis dealers and shop lifters.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 10:04

I don't understand the stance that accepts that the police are not competent enough to protect innocent people who are at great risk, but wants to hand them the power to execute people.

That is just nuts.

CrapolaDeVille · 07/06/2011 10:05

Perhaps we should bring back some sort of national service for men that displace themselves, have no purpose and are failures in their own lives.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 07/06/2011 10:05

Yes, because if police say stop, and you dont, and there have been bombs going off with similar people in rucksacks at train/tube stations then that is fine .....

I am referring to armed police who were present at the scene of the mother/baby killling.

Sorry but get real.

CrapolaDeVille · 07/06/2011 10:08

Given that this isn't a one off case and often the violence escalates I think an operation like Womensaid should be part and parcel of reporting a violent ex. As soon as you step into the police station/call the police there should be a person/team assigned to check up on you....just like there is if a child is at risk.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 07/06/2011 10:12

Sardine - police can arrest people based on laws ... which are made by the Home Office, not the police. So if the laws arent there, or have loopholes, write to your MP.

I seriously believe that the majority of police would loved to have just send this guy into hypothetical oblivion and never see him again, as with many other people that the police deal with. It must be so frsutrating to have people complain about things, as I am sure this mother did, but the police are powerless to do that much... because they cant make up laws.

Wheres a policeman/woman when you need one?! Damn cuts!!!

DirtyMartini · 07/06/2011 10:12

Greenstocking: empowering and supporting women is great, obviously, as is educating our daughters (and sons too, I'd add) about healthy relationships.

But I strongly object to your statements that women should not get involved with these men to begin with, that women should make better choices about who they sleep with and have children with, that women who are being trapped and isolated should just leave ... all of these are breathtakingly lacking in insight and all of them imply a level of "it was partly her fault for not being enlightened/strong/intelligent enough to avoid the situation"-type thinking.

You can claim all you want that you believe women are never responsible for the violence against them, but when you follow with all of those opinions it just makes you sound like your thinking is (a) all over the place, and (b) rather dangerously sexist.

You will not do your children any favours if you raise them to believe that women should shoulder the burden for avoiding any potentially abusive situation; or that if they just make all the right choices at all times and never misjudge anyone, they'll be fine...

GeekCool · 07/06/2011 10:14

Dirtymartini - great post

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 10:17

cookcleaner you think the police were right to shoot jean charles menezes?

You know they all lied about what had happened afterwards, to cover their arses?

Fucking hell.

BimboNo5 · 07/06/2011 10:20

WTF have I said it was her fault? I just cant believe that he was only a known drug dealer/violent weirdo SINCE they met and she wasnt aware what a bad choice he was? Why does everyone have to twist what others have said?

BimboNo5 · 07/06/2011 10:32

I would like to teach my children to be aware of people they know are unsavoury characters and not to take uneccesary risks with their safety/life. I hope I raise them to want better for themselves than a life with a known drug dealer/psycho and the risks it brings. Of course violent men can be charming and have no signs at first but this man is not one of those! If that makes me sexist or whatever then so be it but its not me saying its the womans fault at all

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 10:33

No, you're saying it's her parents fault

BimboNo5 · 07/06/2011 10:38

The murderer is at fault here- nobody else. I still wonder why people get involved with such dangerous people though.

Notinmykitchen · 07/06/2011 10:39

Why is it that in tragic cases such as this there is so much blame thrown around? It was the fault of the police, the victim, the CPS? The person responsible for this was the total scum who pulled the trigger, nobody else. We do not yet know enough to judge if the police did all that could have been done. Clearly it was not enough in this case, but nobody could have known that out of the countless numbers of men threatening their ex partners (and yes it is unbelievably common) that this was one of the ones that was going to carry out the threat.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 07/06/2011 10:44

Sardinequeen - as your name suggests, you are a fishy little fish .... happy to disengage with you! Have a nice day in fish land!

nijinsky · 07/06/2011 10:44

It really is so frequent that I'm surprised some sort of policy hasn't been researched to target this area of crime.

A couple of weeks ago, no less than 4 Scottish wife killers were in the courts in one week, for one reason or another - Nat Fraser (had his conviction ruled unsafe by the Supreme Court) Robert Brown at Reading Crown Court got 26 years for manslaughter on the ground of diminished responsibility (he was the one who murdered his heiress wife while his children were in the house because she had a pre-nup and he wasn't going to get what he wanted in the divorce settlement). The other, Nabeel Kahn, got 5 years at the High Court in Glasgow for culpable homicide (his wife was a doctor and he strangled her to death in an arguement). Malcolm Webster faked a road traffic accident to kill his first wife, tried the same with his second wife and a third that he tried bigamously to marry was warned off by the police.

Scotland only has a population of 5 1/2 million - and that in one week alone!

(I actually met Robert Brown and reported him to the police years ago for threatning me when I lived in the same apartment building as him, I was so disturbed by his behaviour - he got a warning. One of the most worrying things then was that he was an airline pilot and no-one seemed to spot the risk of this allied to his behavioural traits). Unfortunately psychopaths are also often good at taking people in with their behaviour.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 10:45

So women should not be able to count on the police for assistance or protection when they are threatened by violent men?

It happens too often for them to be expected to do anything about it?

Much the same as rape then eh.

Basically if someone nicks your car, call the cops, they can help. If someone threatens to kill you and your children, don't bother, the police can't or won't help, no-one can help.

This society simply does not value women and children, is the bottom line.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 10:45

That was to notinmykitchen.

Notinmykitchen · 07/06/2011 10:54

SardineQueen yes of course women should be able to count on the police for help, and in many cases they do, but it is not a news headline when a woman successfully leaves her violent partner. Unfortunately though the police do not have crystal balls. I am sure, with the benefit of hindsight, there are many people who could have done more.

In one way I agree, it is much the same as rape, in as much as it is usually one persons word against another, and difficult to prove beyond all reasonable doubt. I agree more needs to be done, but there is no easy solution.