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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

424 replies

sundayrose10 · 07/06/2011 01:56

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

OP posts:
wubblybubbly · 07/06/2011 13:25

I've never yet heard of a case of domestic violence that started on the first date Hmm

The violence usually starts after the emotional abuse has destroyed any self esteem the woman might have had on entering the relationship. It can and does happen to anyone, regardless of class or creed.

Some people are criticising woman for staying with violent men. This poor woman left the abusive bastard, FFS, didn't stop her getting killed.

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 13:31

I'm sorry, I'm just not accepting the argument that all women are equally likely to end up with scum. I'm sorry, no.

And SOME men DO start off scummy and women stick with them because it's , " exciting" or, " I love him" or " he's only violent when he's drunk".

I have known women dump decent men for being, " too nice" FFS!!

skeletonbones · 07/06/2011 13:35

The rights of women to refuse access to men who are a danger to them and their children should be respected and supported more by society as a whole, as well as agencies and the courts. Some men are too dangerous to be around their children in any form, the focus needs to shift away from 'father's rights' and focus on the rights of children to stay safe.

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 13:38

Absolutely, skeletonbones.

Not having children with dangerous abusive scum would be a good idea, too.

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 13:39

What do you want to know greenstocking, whether there is a type of woman that abusive men are attracted to?

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 13:43

I don;t know MitchiestInge.

I suspect there might be. I do know that the thought of some of my powerful, strong, fearless women friends being attracted to a violent drug dealer is insane.

But yes, they could very well be attractede to a charming psychopath but - and I HAVE been there - they , like I , would flee as soon as it became clear what he was.
So I don't know, you tell me.

DirtyMartini · 07/06/2011 13:47

"I'm just not accepting the argument that all women are equally likely to end up with scum"

No, probably not; I don't know how you could measure that. But that's not the argument being made against putting the onus on women.

Any woman, any woman at all, could end up with a violent man. There are simply too many possible ways for it to happen. There are a lot of violent men with a lot of different behaviours, backgrounds, histories. To suggest it is partly a woman's responsibility to avoid any run-in with one of them is to set women up for failure, because there will always be men who you don't think will do this, and then they do.

And as for the notion that women should leave (as you said earlier) when it becomes clear that a man is abusive or dangerous: the OP herself pointed out that trying to leave is often one of the things that gets women killed. No wonder some women are too scared.

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 13:50

Well that's lovely for you and your friends, medals all round for just knowing that you would spot the red flags and act upon them before you ended up so riddled with self doubt that years later you barely recognise your own reflection in a mirror.

Northernlurker · 07/06/2011 13:51

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think that we could never make the mistake of becoming involved with a violent man. Violent men don't come with a label and are found in all branches of society. Women are being beaten up today by their lawyer husbands, their doctor boyfriends and yes their drug dealing partners.
I read yesterday that there were 55,000 prosceutions for violence against women last year. There but for the grace of God go many of us. We need to raise our children to have healthy self respect, to respect one another and we need to help people get out of these situations before the worst happens. Sitting around saying 'if only she'd seen that he was a murdering bully' is singularly unhelpful.

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 13:57

Northernlurker - I am NOT saying that but have been saying exactly what you have said.

Much as we would like to, we cannot exterminate every violent piece of scum.
So we teach ourselves and our daughters how to keep clear of them and how to run from them if they do get involved.

Mitchiest. I have a relative in a nasty,controlling relationship. she tells me frequently how, " lucky" I am that my husband is such a decent man.He was nasty and controlling from the beginning, BTW.

Lucky? Jesus, what is going wrong when women think being with a nice chap is lucky?

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 14:01

I don't know but what is wrong with acknowledging that luck plays a part? People aren't usually born spineless.

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 14:05

Mitch - I don't know.

I'm very, very uncomfortable with the portrayal of women as hapless victims trapped by men. I really am.

Lots of us have had encounters with unpleasant men and most of us run.

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 14:09

Yeah. You know, somewhere between 'women as hapless victims of men' at one extreme and your nauseating craving for a round of fucking applause at the wisdom of your self perceived superior choices in love and life a lot of stuff just fucking happens to people who don't deserve it.

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 14:10

I dropped this after life: 'at the other extreme'

jellybeans · 07/06/2011 14:11

So very sad :( people like that should NOT get access, end of.

Northernlurker · 07/06/2011 14:12

'Lots of us have had encounters with unpleasant men and most of us run' Oh FFS! So you are saying aren't you that a woman who doesn't run is in some way at fault? What a vile attitude!
Abuse reduces a person's capacity to act - can you try and grasp that?

crispyseaweed · 07/06/2011 14:16

Thats right ,, you lose all confidence and courage, and all that goes through your mind is "What if he finds me", or "what if he beats me up so badly .."
Trust me.. I have been there......Sad

Greenstocking · 07/06/2011 14:17

Northernlurker.

Some women know the men are vile at the start and CHOOSE TO STAY.
Some women see the man becoming unpleasant and STILL CHOOSE TO STAY.
Some women don't see it coming until it is too late and HAVE VERY LITTLE CHOICE.

Mitchiest. Nice. And yeah, actually, choosing not to shack up with a violent drug dealer IS a superior choice.

Or are all choices equal?

DirtyMartini · 07/06/2011 14:18

"I'm very, very uncomfortable with the portrayal of women as hapless victims trapped by men."

Greenstocking - nobody is saying that women as a group are hapless victims trapped by men. But you know what? Some women, sadly, genuinely are. Acknowledging that and making it clear it's not their fault is important, very important; and it is not the same as making victimhood a prophecy or a truism for all women. I don't get why you are so keen to suggest it will do that.

Personally I'm very uncomfortable with the notion that a woman who's abused or attacked and later (as many do) tortures herself with thoughts that she could/should have behaved differently to avoid it, might be encouraged in this view by attitudes like the ones you've expressed here. It's a very short step from that to victim-blaming.

babybarrister · 07/06/2011 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DirtyMartini · 07/06/2011 14:26

xpost. So, what's your solution then, Greenstocking? For, say, a woman who grew up abused and knows her new boyfriend is vile at the start and "chooses" to stay because she doesn't really believe she deserves anything better? (OK, it's a stereotype, but it happens a lot.)

Or a woman, maybe even one of your feisty friends from your earlier post, who gradually "sees the man becoming unpleasant" but has always been confident and thought the best of people so decides she can handle it/get help from Relate/manage the situation, and "still chooses to stay"?

Women in these and a million other situations are hurt and killed all the time. How can you think "she chose to stay" is a useful point?

Northernlurker · 07/06/2011 14:26

Greenstocking - there are women on this thread who have been in violent relationships. How are they supposed to feel when you spout crap like 'Some women know the men are vile at the start and CHOOSE TO STAY.
Some women see the man becoming unpleasant and STILL CHOOSE TO STAY.' You owe those women an apology for implying that the violence they have suffered was ever, ever a choice on their part.

GeekCool · 07/06/2011 14:29

Greenstocking - your extremely narrow minded in your views. As someone who did get out of an abusive relationship, I think you are talking out of your arse.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 07/06/2011 14:31

What about this bastard?

He seemed like a nice boy, didn't he? She didn't want him thrown out of the house as he had "nowhere to go". :(

HaughtyChuckle · 07/06/2011 14:34

So Awful

RIP them both